1
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:13,680
[Music]

2
00:00:20,979 --> 00:00:17,450
this hope radio for the masses headline

3
00:00:22,900 --> 00:00:20,989
of this new July 8 1947 the Army Air

4
00:00:24,850 --> 00:00:22,910
Forces has announced that a flying bear

5
00:00:27,130 --> 00:00:24,860
has been found and is now in the

6
00:00:30,370 --> 00:00:27,140
possession of the army the game is

7
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:30,380
rigged changed the game GameChanger

8
00:00:37,810 --> 00:00:33,530
I occasionally think how quickly our

9
00:00:40,380 --> 00:00:37,820
differences worldwide would vanish if we

10
00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:40,390
were facing an alien threat from outside

11
00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:41,980
his work

12
00:00:48,940 --> 00:00:45,730
[Music]

13
00:00:51,910 --> 00:00:48,950
this is fade to black with your host

14
00:00:53,830 --> 00:00:51,920
Jimmy Church on the game changer radio

15
00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:53,840
network and a GRA

16
00:01:00,470 --> 00:00:55,710
the global rain

17
00:01:04,089 --> 00:01:00,480
[Music]

18
00:01:07,789 --> 00:01:04,099
in 1985

19
00:01:10,219 --> 00:01:07,799
[Music]

20
00:01:12,870 --> 00:01:10,229
you'll need to fade to black with Jimmy

21
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:12,880
judge on the game-changing network

22
00:01:20,210 --> 00:01:25,050
all right good evening fade to black

23
00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:33,020
this spoke radio for the

24
00:01:43,719 --> 00:01:39,020
Matt says yeah Matt how you done let's

25
00:01:45,210 --> 00:01:43,729
do that it's Monday Monday February 17

26
00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:45,220
2020

27
00:01:54,179 --> 00:01:51,590
[Music]

28
00:01:58,389 --> 00:01:54,189
forty-eight days into the new year only

29
00:02:00,099 --> 00:01:58,399
324 days left we are live from a bunker

30
00:02:04,090 --> 00:02:00,109
summer in the middle of beautiful

31
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:05,830
and I would like to welcome everybody

32
00:02:14,650 --> 00:02:07,610
listening all around the world all

33
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:14,660
across the United States hither and

34
00:02:21,790 --> 00:02:16,850
thither to and fro back and forth up and

35
00:02:23,490 --> 00:02:21,800
down east and west north and south far

36
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:23,500
and near

37
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:26,450
this is fade to black for kjc are the

38
00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:28,970
game changer Network and kera the planet

39
00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:30,760
I'm your host Jimmy Church

40
00:02:35,620 --> 00:02:33,200
what is cracking everybody how you doing

41
00:02:38,979 --> 00:02:35,630
kicking off another great week here on

42
00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:38,989
fade to black we're gonna do that

43
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:42,650
tonight starting with Paul Hynek Paul

44
00:02:46,449 --> 00:02:44,450
Hynek is here oh man

45
00:02:50,620 --> 00:02:46,459
looking forward to this and I know you

46
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:50,630
are too and tomorrow night it's gonna be

47
00:02:56,259 --> 00:02:52,610
a special night because tomorrow night

48
00:02:59,140 --> 00:02:56,269
I'm speaking here in Los Angeles over at

49
00:03:00,120 --> 00:02:59,150
you bars la that's going down in Studio

50
00:03:03,699 --> 00:03:00,130
City

51
00:03:07,870 --> 00:03:03,709
so fade to black is taking the night off

52
00:03:10,990 --> 00:03:07,880
but we will be live streaming from the

53
00:03:12,550 --> 00:03:11,000
event so you'll have that to look

54
00:03:15,610 --> 00:03:12,560
forward to tomorrow night and if you're

55
00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:15,620
gonna miss the live stream and I think

56
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:17,390
we're gonna hit it off we're gonna do

57
00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:20,290
everything it'll be Twitter periscope

58
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:23,209
YouTube and Facebook

59
00:03:27,370 --> 00:03:25,250
I believe we're gonna livestream to all

60
00:03:28,780 --> 00:03:27,380
of the platforms tomorrow night and if

61
00:03:32,349 --> 00:03:28,790
you're not there for that and you're

62
00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:32,359
here then you'll be listening to this

63
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:35,920
show tomorrow night the replay

64
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:38,810
so that's tomorrow night and then

65
00:03:44,259 --> 00:03:41,570
Wednesday night we have Steve Mehra

66
00:03:47,650 --> 00:03:44,269
joining us live from the United Kingdom

67
00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:47,660
and it's always great when Steve is with

68
00:03:52,270 --> 00:03:50,480
us we've got lots to talk about

69
00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:52,280
and that'll be happening on Wednesday

70
00:03:57,819 --> 00:03:55,280
night and of course Thursday is another

71
00:04:00,580 --> 00:03:57,829
Fator night email is jimmy at jimmy

72
00:04:02,979 --> 00:04:00,590
church radio calm tonight Paul Hynek

73
00:04:05,650 --> 00:04:02,989
very excited about this Paula's worked

74
00:04:07,869 --> 00:04:05,660
in tech and entertainment and is

75
00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:07,879
currently a business consultant Paul is

76
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:09,920
the former adjunct professor at

77
00:04:14,740 --> 00:04:12,530
Pepperdine University and is presently a

78
00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:14,750
consultant for history's new series

79
00:04:20,259 --> 00:04:17,329
Project Blue Book based on a real

80
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:20,269
project to investigate UFOs from 1952 to

81
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:24,770
1969 of course Paul is the son of dr. J

82
00:04:28,390 --> 00:04:27,410
Allen Hynek the astronomer who worked

83
00:04:31,390 --> 00:04:28,400
for the United States Air Force

84
00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:31,400
investigating UFO cases from 1948 all

85
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:32,990
the way to the end of Project Blue Book

86
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:36,770
in 1969 dr. J Allen Hynek began his

87
00:04:41,170 --> 00:04:38,330
investigation with the United States Air

88
00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:41,180
Force as a skeptic but by the time Blue

89
00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:44,000
Book ended he was convinced some UFO

90
00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:46,880
cases posed a real mystery and I would

91
00:04:50,409 --> 00:04:48,110
like to welcome for the first time to

92
00:04:53,230 --> 00:04:50,419
fade to black Paul Hynek Paul good

93
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:53,240
evening man how are you thank you it's

94
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:54,770
great to be here and maybe the son of

95
00:04:58,659 --> 00:04:56,570
Jael and i Nick but I'm also the friend

96
00:05:03,460 --> 00:04:58,669
of Jimmy Church you know what you know

97
00:05:06,159 --> 00:05:03,470
what rocks Paul I get two right now give

98
00:05:08,830 --> 00:05:06,169
you the first time guest disclaimer

99
00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:08,840
right so let's get that homeboy this is

100
00:05:11,740 --> 00:05:09,289
an honor

101
00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:11,750
Paul it's just you and I sitting on my

102
00:05:15,790 --> 00:05:13,850
couch having a conversation as friends

103
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:15,800
and where the conversation starts it

104
00:05:20,770 --> 00:05:17,930
starts where it ends it ends but we're

105
00:05:24,909 --> 00:05:20,780
demand as friends

106
00:05:28,089 --> 00:05:24,919
okay all right now I'm actually gonna

107
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:28,099
start here I've been watching and I've

108
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:31,010
been getting email I've been watching

109
00:05:37,089 --> 00:05:34,130
social media and my text in an email

110
00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:37,099
there's a lot of excited people out

111
00:05:43,930 --> 00:05:41,000
there listening right for tonight's show

112
00:05:45,790 --> 00:05:43,940
Paul is cool Jimmy's cool this is gonna

113
00:05:48,550 --> 00:05:45,800
be great it's gonna be amazing

114
00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:48,560
and I'm thinking Paul that maybe we

115
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:51,110
should call it quits now while we're

116
00:05:56,260 --> 00:05:53,810
ahead of the game and let's you and I

117
00:05:57,940 --> 00:05:56,270
meet halfway since we're neighbors let's

118
00:06:00,490 --> 00:05:57,950
just go to a restaurant tonight and have

119
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:00,500
dinner and save ourselves what do you

120
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:03,289
think okay well go to public school in

121
00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:06,050
Sherman Oaks oh man my daughter's went

122
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:10,110
to public school in Sherman Oaks

123
00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:13,330
that that is not only did they go to

124
00:06:18,660 --> 00:06:15,940
school next door to the restaurant but

125
00:06:26,870 --> 00:06:18,670
that restaurant is top notch I like you

126
00:06:35,310 --> 00:06:32,580
all right here we go tonight I have to

127
00:06:39,290 --> 00:06:35,320
ask the one question because you and I

128
00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:39,300
are the same age and I can only imagine

129
00:06:45,990 --> 00:06:42,670
what it was like for you

130
00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:46,000
or maybe I can't growing up in the first

131
00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:50,920
family of UFO research and it did was

132
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:53,830
this something that you were cognizant

133
00:07:00,090 --> 00:06:57,370
of you know going to school you know

134
00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:00,100
first second third fourth fifth grade in

135
00:07:07,950 --> 00:07:03,780
the in the 60s and did your friends know

136
00:07:12,630 --> 00:07:07,960
because this gave you street cred I can

137
00:07:16,470 --> 00:07:12,640
only imagine yeah well you know however

138
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:16,480
you grow up is normal to you until you

139
00:07:22,230 --> 00:07:19,690
get some outside vantage point to sort

140
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:22,240
of compare it to I mean I I thought that

141
00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:24,250
everybody had Christmas tree ornaments

142
00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:27,820
there were UFOs and best sphere balls

143
00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:30,550
and paintings on the wall of abduction

144
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:32,560
that's just that's just seemed normal to

145
00:07:41,010 --> 00:07:37,570
me and yeah my friends I thought it was

146
00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:41,020
super cool that our dad was you know I'm

147
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:43,120
one of five kids I thought it was super

148
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:45,010
cool that our dad was an astronomer and

149
00:07:51,450 --> 00:07:47,290
then you know doing sort of a side

150
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:51,460
hustle working with UFOs I like that

151
00:07:59,340 --> 00:07:55,650
terminology side hustle was that because

152
00:08:02,400 --> 00:07:59,350
how did you feel that your father was

153
00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:02,410
approaching it you know I mean was it

154
00:08:07,830 --> 00:08:04,870
discussed at the dinner table was this

155
00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:07,840
you know family discussion I mean I

156
00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:09,700
talked to my dad about his job all the

157
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:14,460
time did you do the same thing heck yeah

158
00:08:18,350 --> 00:08:16,690
wouldn't anybody I mean your dad is

159
00:08:20,730 --> 00:08:18,360
studying one of the biggest mysteries in

160
00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:20,740
history of the world is there life

161
00:08:26,499 --> 00:08:23,449
elsewhere and you know asterisk has it

162
00:08:28,269 --> 00:08:26,509
here so we were fascinated by it and he

163
00:08:31,029 --> 00:08:28,279
would bring it home literally with case

164
00:08:33,250 --> 00:08:31,039
files and witnesses having dinner at our

165
00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:33,260
house I remember a father Gill

166
00:08:38,050 --> 00:08:35,120
one of my favorite cases of all time

167
00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:38,060
from Papua New Guinean 1959 coming to

168
00:08:41,769 --> 00:08:40,279
dinner at our house and he was such a

169
00:08:44,079 --> 00:08:41,779
good witness because he wasn't really

170
00:08:46,420 --> 00:08:44,089
that interested in popularizing his case

171
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:46,430
and he was in town for an ecumenical

172
00:08:50,949 --> 00:08:48,410
conference because he was an Anglican

173
00:08:53,170 --> 00:08:50,959
minister but if you come to the Hynek

174
00:08:56,019 --> 00:08:53,180
house for dinner and you've reported the

175
00:08:57,939 --> 00:08:56,029
UFO the kind of quid pro quo that you're

176
00:09:00,850 --> 00:08:57,949
gonna have to fess up and talk about the

177
00:09:04,290 --> 00:09:00,860
UFO report again which we had this all

178
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:04,300
the time and and and what about your mom

179
00:09:11,710 --> 00:09:08,930
was she was she is engaged to as well or

180
00:09:16,090 --> 00:09:11,720
was she busy being a mom and that was

181
00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:16,100
just her husband's job she got very

182
00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:18,760
engaged and became a leading figure in

183
00:09:24,370 --> 00:09:22,310
ufology in her own right she was the

184
00:09:27,189 --> 00:09:24,380
editor of the International UFO Reporter

185
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:27,199
and without her I think the Center for

186
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:29,290
UFO studies which my father founded

187
00:09:34,210 --> 00:09:31,610
likely would not have lasted more than a

188
00:09:36,790 --> 00:09:34,220
couple of years so and what I'm trying

189
00:09:38,769 --> 00:09:36,800
to in and although we know about that

190
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:38,779
aspect of your mom and of course your

191
00:09:43,150 --> 00:09:39,370
father

192
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:43,160
it's that how open was it you know

193
00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:45,410
around the house with the family and

194
00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:48,470
that I think all of us are so intrigued

195
00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:51,230
by that and I can only imagine what that

196
00:09:55,150 --> 00:09:52,880
must have been like but you're

197
00:10:00,220 --> 00:09:55,160
suggesting here that you guys were

198
00:10:02,530 --> 00:10:00,230
full-on flying saucer yes that's one way

199
00:10:04,059 --> 00:10:02,540
to put it I mean this was you know my

200
00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:04,069
father was a scientist first and

201
00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:06,800
foremost and who did a lot of cool stuff

202
00:10:12,490 --> 00:10:09,110
in astronomy and astrophysics and rocket

203
00:10:14,350 --> 00:10:12,500
science and this became something that I

204
00:10:15,699 --> 00:10:14,360
thought I think when he was first

205
00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:15,709
approached by the Air Force he thought

206
00:10:20,530 --> 00:10:17,690
that it would just be a couple weekends

207
00:10:22,509 --> 00:10:20,540
of work I think he had no idea that it

208
00:10:23,860 --> 00:10:22,519
would turn into something that Jimmy

209
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:23,870
church would be interviewing his son

210
00:10:31,329 --> 00:10:27,110
about decades later right so it's just

211
00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:31,339
and it was very open it was you know my

212
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:33,350
father was a scientist like I said so we

213
00:10:37,190 --> 00:10:34,970
had lots of conversation he encouraged

214
00:10:40,970 --> 00:10:37,200
as did my mom our interest in

215
00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:40,980
world and science in particular and have

216
00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:43,710
an open inquisitive mind and since he

217
00:10:48,860 --> 00:10:46,710
was speech or they both were steeped in

218
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:48,870
UFOs that was just a ready-made

219
00:10:57,890 --> 00:10:52,770
subject for us to talk about and the and

220
00:11:01,910 --> 00:10:57,900
the the bona fide flipside is this there

221
00:11:04,490 --> 00:11:01,920
are those out there that believe and

222
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:04,500
strongly believe with conviction well

223
00:11:11,060 --> 00:11:07,890
that your father knew the real stuff

224
00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:11,070
right I mean aside from the public

225
00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:13,470
persona and the public side of this and

226
00:11:20,690 --> 00:11:15,750
what his beliefs were it comes down to

227
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:20,700
actual knowledge and art was that ever

228
00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:22,830
really discussed I mean did he ever say

229
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:24,840
okay this is there's something I can't

230
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:27,090
talk about but I need to share it do you

231
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:30,000
feel that your father was privy to

232
00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:32,370
information that still hasn't been

233
00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:35,580
disclosed today well we would go over

234
00:11:40,970 --> 00:11:38,310
really sensitive documents traditionally

235
00:11:46,540 --> 00:11:40,980
during Easter dinner at area 51 as a

236
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:49,580
know I don't think you are let's see

237
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:53,850
this is the thing I have I have some

238
00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:56,040
documents here not originals of course

239
00:12:01,700 --> 00:11:59,100
but I have some stuff from the center of

240
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:01,710
UFO studies and you know with your

241
00:12:05,510 --> 00:12:03,090
father's signature on it and these

242
00:12:07,550 --> 00:12:05,520
different Case Files and I look at those

243
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:07,560
and and these are things that aren't

244
00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:10,110
public but I think are some of the most

245
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:13,080
fascinating strongest cases did you do

246
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:14,730
the same thing did you jump into the

247
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:17,760
files and open up some filing cabinets

248
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:19,410
and just start reading reading this

249
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:23,730
stuff yeah and for a while I have the

250
00:12:35,180 --> 00:12:27,570
honor to me that my bedroom was the

251
00:12:38,570 --> 00:12:35,190
largest UFO library in the world like

252
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,580
rock and roll posters on the wall but my

253
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:40,560
mom was a pretty strong will and that

254
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:43,740
was a family real estate so to speak now

255
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:45,410
I want to jump back to

256
00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:49,040
man I so want to be you I want to jump

257
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:51,740
back to the point that we just kind of

258
00:12:59,610 --> 00:12:56,690
blew by earlier you said I don't know if

259
00:13:02,619 --> 00:12:59,620
you're being facetious you said you had

260
00:13:07,929 --> 00:13:02,629
paintings of alien abductions on the

261
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:07,939
wall of your bedroom yeah we had I won

262
00:13:13,449 --> 00:13:12,110
in my garage now of UFOs but we had all

263
00:13:15,819 --> 00:13:13,459
kinds of stuff like that

264
00:13:19,210 --> 00:13:15,829
and I mentioned the best sphere that's

265
00:13:22,660 --> 00:13:19,220
from a famous case in Florida and we may

266
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:22,670
have had the actual best fear because we

267
00:13:29,949 --> 00:13:27,170
had a very large cannon ball sized piece

268
00:13:31,119 --> 00:13:29,959
of steel that my father gave to my

269
00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:31,129
little playing the younger brother Ross

270
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:32,870
and I and we were just playing with it

271
00:13:38,769 --> 00:13:36,170
in the basement and I know that he had

272
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:38,779
possession of the actual best sphere at

273
00:13:43,329 --> 00:13:40,970
one time and I really can't think of any

274
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:43,339
better place to put it than to not say

275
00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:47,689
anything about its origin oh we just

276
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:51,769
lost Paul Paul are you there I'm here

277
00:13:58,210 --> 00:13:54,560
okay yeah you dropped out you dropped

278
00:14:00,309 --> 00:13:58,220
out the last 20 seconds yeah that's that

279
00:14:04,290 --> 00:14:00,319
censorship right there yeah there see

280
00:14:07,710 --> 00:14:04,300
you know are you used to it now and

281
00:14:11,620 --> 00:14:07,720
let's let's go right there the

282
00:14:14,050 --> 00:14:11,630
censorship on this issue your father

283
00:14:16,809 --> 00:14:14,060
certainly and you being part of the

284
00:14:20,769 --> 00:14:16,819
family you guys were you guys were

285
00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:20,779
censored stories were changed results

286
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:23,689
were changed things were edited and it

287
00:14:27,939 --> 00:14:25,610
was something that certainly frustrated

288
00:14:31,929 --> 00:14:27,949
your dad you experienced that firsthand

289
00:14:34,179 --> 00:14:31,939
is is has it's been a lifelong situation

290
00:14:36,730 --> 00:14:34,189
with you where you've had to deal with

291
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:36,740
one side what you believed is the truth

292
00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:39,170
and your father and then the other side

293
00:14:45,699 --> 00:14:41,569
the edited sanitized version that the

294
00:14:47,769 --> 00:14:45,709
public read I'll answer that in two

295
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:47,779
parts first part yes I mean I grew up in

296
00:14:55,809 --> 00:14:52,370
a culture of my father with a lifelong

297
00:14:58,569 --> 00:14:55,819
passion to take a flashlight to the dark

298
00:15:00,939 --> 00:14:58,579
fringes of mainstream science

299
00:15:02,530 --> 00:15:00,949
and push the boundaries of accepted

300
00:15:04,919 --> 00:15:02,540
thought just a little bit more and

301
00:15:07,239 --> 00:15:04,929
that's what he was so attracted to UFOs

302
00:15:09,639 --> 00:15:07,249
after he realized that there really was

303
00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:09,649
a phenomenon there the second part is

304
00:15:17,739 --> 00:15:13,100
given my big fat mouth I wish I'd had

305
00:15:23,379 --> 00:15:17,749
more censorship in my life and and how

306
00:15:25,329 --> 00:15:23,389
so in that you feel that you you know

307
00:15:26,650 --> 00:15:25,339
this is you know freedom of speech and

308
00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:26,660
this is an issue that you're going to

309
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:29,809
speak freely about but at times you've

310
00:15:38,769 --> 00:15:34,970
maybe stepped over the line I'm a little

311
00:15:42,129 --> 00:15:38,779
bit freewheeling I remember and I

312
00:15:45,429 --> 00:15:42,139
mentioned this to you last week but I

313
00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:45,439
went to a presentation of yours here in

314
00:15:51,579 --> 00:15:47,929
Los Angeles it was that the the MUFON

315
00:15:54,129 --> 00:15:51,589
symposium and I stood in the back of the

316
00:15:57,549 --> 00:15:54,139
room and and listened to your

317
00:15:59,559 --> 00:15:57,559
presentation and the one thing that I

318
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:59,569
came away from the information and all

319
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:01,279
of that was great but what I came away

320
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:04,730
from your presentation with was here's a

321
00:16:10,479 --> 00:16:07,850
guy that's just honest right this you're

322
00:16:12,489 --> 00:16:10,489
just putting it out there unfiltered and

323
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:12,499
do you you don't have a reason to hold

324
00:16:19,389 --> 00:16:14,649
back and I don't think that you care and

325
00:16:23,379 --> 00:16:19,399
is that a fair assessment yeah I mean

326
00:16:26,889 --> 00:16:23,389
what do I have to hide you know there's

327
00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:26,899
been and people have different feelings

328
00:16:33,729 --> 00:16:29,169
about how much coverup and conspiracy

329
00:16:35,889 --> 00:16:33,739
and disclosure Laden secrets there are

330
00:16:39,429 --> 00:16:35,899
and you know tucked away in the bowels

331
00:16:42,609 --> 00:16:39,439
of the US government but in this subject

332
00:16:44,530 --> 00:16:42,619
is cloaked in secrecy so I don't have

333
00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:44,540
any secrets that I don't share because

334
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:46,910
what we need is much more sunlight upon

335
00:17:01,989 --> 00:16:51,199
this phenomena right and can you can you

336
00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:01,999
spot the Fed yeah yeah you must be

337
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:03,980
activated today I mean can you spot the

338
00:17:10,179 --> 00:17:07,520
Fed can you spot an agent yeah that'd be

339
00:17:12,340 --> 00:17:10,189
a really cool cool video game spot the

340
00:17:13,930 --> 00:17:12,350
Fed yeah you know

341
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:13,940
the men in black was something in my

342
00:17:20,260 --> 00:17:18,530
father was aware of and most often he

343
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:20,270
wouldn't see them but he would just sort

344
00:17:25,150 --> 00:17:22,970
of find their the legacy of their

345
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:25,160
presence by having witnesses he'd

346
00:17:30,130 --> 00:17:27,230
already talked to start to clam up or

347
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:30,140
people he'd just met be really curiously

348
00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:32,570
reticent to talk at all did you ever

349
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:35,540
walk out of your house and see you know

350
00:17:41,170 --> 00:17:37,850
like the strange car across the street I

351
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:41,180
mean were you were you trying to be

352
00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:45,200
cognizant of these things you know I

353
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:47,900
didn't think about things like that so

354
00:17:54,940 --> 00:17:52,310
much we had a fair a number of crazy

355
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,950
people come to the house but I'm pretty

356
00:18:01,720 --> 00:17:56,960
sure they weren't in the employment of

357
00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:01,730
the US government what am I supposed to

358
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:06,500
do with that answer what do you say

359
00:18:12,610 --> 00:18:08,170
crazy

360
00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:12,620
yeah please expand so one of my

361
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:15,380
favorites was Prince Michael Prince

362
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:17,360
Michael used to call and say he was from

363
00:18:22,420 --> 00:18:20,450
Orion and somehow I picked up the phone

364
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:22,430
and I'd start talking to the guy I said

365
00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:24,170
look I don't think you're from Orion I

366
00:18:27,370 --> 00:18:25,430
think you're from the Pleiades and

367
00:18:28,780 --> 00:18:27,380
you're making that stuff up and he said

368
00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:28,790
you don't believe me - I said no I think

369
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:30,620
you're stone-cold crazy dude I think

370
00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:33,410
you're not and he says okay how about

371
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:35,750
this how about if I put a million

372
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:37,310
dollars in your bank account will you

373
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:38,150
believe me then

374
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:41,510
and I said you bet I will and so I asked

375
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:43,310
my mom I'm like 12 years old at the time

376
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:46,010
hey mom can I give him my bank account

377
00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:49,010
number and my mom said yeah why not you

378
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:50,950
got like all of 17 dollars in there sure

379
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:54,050
mom so I gave my bank account number he

380
00:18:58,780 --> 00:18:55,610
said the money will be in there in the

381
00:19:01,900 --> 00:18:58,790
next couple of days and I rode my swim

382
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:01,910
Fastback bike to the bank every day so

383
00:19:07,060 --> 00:19:04,400
excited spending every penny of that

384
00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:07,070
million dollars true and every day I buy

385
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:11,150
some back huh slowly and sullen and sad

386
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:13,490
and finally he'd call back like four

387
00:19:16,210 --> 00:19:14,720
days later I said did you get the money

388
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:16,220
I said no dude you're nuts

389
00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:17,930
and then he said okay I'll prove it to

390
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:21,260
you call the CIA and they will tell you

391
00:19:26,409 --> 00:19:23,630
that they're afraid of me and he gave me

392
00:19:29,109 --> 00:19:26,419
the number for the CIA so I called

393
00:19:30,399 --> 00:19:29,119
and women picked up the phone I said hi

394
00:19:32,649 --> 00:19:30,409
my name is Paul hi NIC I'm a red-blooded

395
00:19:33,879 --> 00:19:32,659
American the what I'm going to tell you

396
00:19:35,859 --> 00:19:33,889
is that it what I think it's a crazy

397
00:19:38,019 --> 00:19:35,869
person but there's a guy named Prince

398
00:19:40,570 --> 00:19:38,029
Michael who calls me on the phone and he

399
00:19:43,479 --> 00:19:40,580
told me that you guys at the CIA are

400
00:19:46,239 --> 00:19:43,489
afraid of him and the woman took a

401
00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:46,249
little breath and said well Paul I'll

402
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:47,960
tell you this we're not losing a lot of

403
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:50,330
sleep over it a lot cool the CIA in the

404
00:19:54,369 --> 00:19:52,970
sense of humor so Prince Michael called

405
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:54,379
back the next day and said you called

406
00:19:57,700 --> 00:19:55,730
him yes what'd they say

407
00:19:59,409 --> 00:19:57,710
I told him he said well you didn't

408
00:20:04,210 --> 00:19:59,419
expect him to really admit it did you oh

409
00:20:06,399 --> 00:20:04,220
come on so he was my personal favorite

410
00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:06,409
but we had all kinds of characters come

411
00:20:11,649 --> 00:20:09,470
to the house warning my dad of not

412
00:20:14,979 --> 00:20:11,659
traveling to areas with seismic activity

413
00:20:17,379 --> 00:20:14,989
that tomorrow President Brezhnev of our

414
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:17,389
premier business of Russia Soviet Union

415
00:20:21,249 --> 00:20:19,460
and President Reagan will be hand

416
00:20:23,289 --> 00:20:21,259
slaughtered on the steps of the Kremlin

417
00:20:25,869 --> 00:20:23,299
and the White House respectively and

418
00:20:27,580 --> 00:20:25,879
that he had a space wife who didn't know

419
00:20:30,249 --> 00:20:27,590
she was going to marry him yet and on

420
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:30,259
and on and on did Prince Michael

421
00:20:36,099 --> 00:20:33,710
actually did you meet him in person no

422
00:20:37,779 --> 00:20:36,109
well not that I know of but he or she

423
00:20:40,989 --> 00:20:37,789
sounds a little bit like you Jimmy so

424
00:20:43,509 --> 00:20:40,999
I'm not too sure well you know what I

425
00:20:47,049 --> 00:20:43,519
can promise you this I don't have a

426
00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:47,059
million dollars so that won't be

427
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:48,470
appearing in your bank account tomorrow

428
00:20:53,619 --> 00:20:51,289
that that part of it there could be

429
00:20:58,409 --> 00:20:53,629
there could be a Hawaiian connection

430
00:21:01,840 --> 00:20:58,419
there though I wanted to ask you this

431
00:21:04,899 --> 00:21:01,850
Close Encounters of the Third Kind okay

432
00:21:08,129 --> 00:21:04,909
yeah now again you and I are the same

433
00:21:10,659 --> 00:21:08,139
age so I know that you watched the movie

434
00:21:15,549 --> 00:21:10,669
the same time that I did for the first

435
00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:15,559
time and at that age at my age when I

436
00:21:21,580 --> 00:21:18,379
saw for the first time it was a it was a

437
00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:21,590
game changer and now but my dad wasn't

438
00:21:29,979 --> 00:21:27,190
in the movie yours was and how was that

439
00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:29,989
for the impact of that for the family

440
00:21:35,049 --> 00:21:31,940
and you personally let's actually start

441
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:35,059
there what was that light to go through

442
00:21:40,029 --> 00:21:38,570
you know as such a huge movie like that

443
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:40,039
and your father

444
00:21:45,009 --> 00:21:42,080
even though briefly you know for that

445
00:21:47,919 --> 00:21:45,019
one shot but it was done with intention

446
00:21:51,129 --> 00:21:47,929
right yeah I what was the impact of the

447
00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:51,139
film well it was a super cool experience

448
00:21:57,609 --> 00:21:55,220
I met Spielberg during filming you know

449
00:22:00,039 --> 00:21:57,619
I was used to what we were used to my

450
00:22:03,159 --> 00:22:00,049
dad being on TV and radio quite a lot

451
00:22:05,139 --> 00:22:03,169
and having news crews come over and and

452
00:22:07,060 --> 00:22:05,149
watching him on TV so we're used to sort

453
00:22:09,399 --> 00:22:07,070
of that sort of production environment

454
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:09,409
but um a feature film was different and

455
00:22:17,889 --> 00:22:13,129
before the movie came out my dad was

456
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:17,899
both guardedly optimistic and and a bit

457
00:22:23,349 --> 00:22:20,720
hesitant because Hollywood isn't always

458
00:22:26,019 --> 00:22:23,359
known for giving serious treatment to

459
00:22:27,789 --> 00:22:26,029
serious phenomena so he wasn't quite

460
00:22:29,769 --> 00:22:27,799
sure about whether to get involved or

461
00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:29,779
not but over the course of a lot of

462
00:22:35,769 --> 00:22:33,320
discussions with Steven Spielberg and

463
00:22:38,469 --> 00:22:35,779
the Phillips who produced it he felt

464
00:22:39,999 --> 00:22:38,479
more and more comfortable and he felt

465
00:22:42,509 --> 00:22:40,009
great about the movie once it came out

466
00:22:47,229 --> 00:22:42,519
because it gave a sympathetic portrayal

467
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:47,239
to a wildly bizarre phenomenon and one

468
00:22:53,379 --> 00:22:48,710
of the things that it really showcased

469
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:53,389
was the sort of extra components of a

470
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:55,369
UFO experience as my father called this

471
00:22:59,109 --> 00:22:57,289
book because it's not all it's not

472
00:23:03,009 --> 00:22:59,119
always merely citing an object in the

473
00:23:04,899 --> 00:23:03,019
sky but individuals report that they

474
00:23:08,649 --> 00:23:04,909
seem to have some type of communication

475
00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:08,659
as well often times so once the movie

476
00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:10,820
came out and my dad was happy with it it

477
00:23:18,399 --> 00:23:12,470
was a great it was great fun you know it

478
00:23:20,139 --> 00:23:18,409
was a big movie at the time and it my

479
00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:20,149
father was very gratified that it turned

480
00:23:23,739 --> 00:23:21,769
out so well and it was just a super cool

481
00:23:25,389 --> 00:23:23,749
experience to go see it and we would go

482
00:23:27,609 --> 00:23:25,399
see it in various showings and my father

483
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:27,619
would speak at Northwestern and then do

484
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:29,570
a showing so it's just a whole lot of

485
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:32,330
fun and then there's the other part

486
00:23:38,649 --> 00:23:35,929
about it which is and I'm on this side

487
00:23:40,479 --> 00:23:38,659
of the fence by the way that Close

488
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,489
Encounters of the Third Kind as

489
00:23:47,589 --> 00:23:43,279
entertaining as it is is actually a

490
00:23:50,830 --> 00:23:47,599
documentary you know where I'm going

491
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:50,840
with this so this is nothing new but

492
00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:53,110
there is that aspect of it do you

493
00:23:57,660 --> 00:23:55,929
feel that Spielberg was in the know and

494
00:24:01,860 --> 00:23:57,670
this was something that was based on

495
00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:01,870
fact well it's it's certainly based on a

496
00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:04,660
lot of reports of UFOs you know the

497
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:07,990
really iconic scene of the UFO is going

498
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:09,850
through the toll booth that's from an

499
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:12,640
actual case reported on the border

500
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:14,950
between Ohio and Pennsylvania so a lot

501
00:24:20,810 --> 00:24:16,210
of the things that happened in the movie

502
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:20,820
are taken from actual reports and the

503
00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:25,690
the fact that your father being in that

504
00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:29,980
that one shot and also of course Jacques

505
00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:31,809
Vallee being portrayed in the film and

506
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:35,590
his involvement that this we go back to

507
00:24:42,060 --> 00:24:38,320
street cred right that this is a way to

508
00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:42,070
validate this fictional presentation by

509
00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:44,860
Spielberg there is that twist on it and

510
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:46,020
you can't get away from that

511
00:24:51,659 --> 00:24:48,809
conspiratorial side of the film Kenya

512
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:51,669
yeah and shout out to the great Jacques

513
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:54,130
Vallee he was a dear family friend you

514
00:24:57,810 --> 00:24:55,450
know one of the interesting things about

515
00:24:58,919 --> 00:24:57,820
the movie is if you compare it like the

516
00:25:00,780 --> 00:24:58,929
name to Star Wars

517
00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:00,790
this is Close Encounters of the Third

518
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:03,790
Kind which is my father's classification

519
00:25:07,860 --> 00:25:05,950
system but it was a big struggle for

520
00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:07,870
Spielberg to get that name accepted

521
00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:09,400
imagine walking to a marketing

522
00:25:12,450 --> 00:25:11,380
department at Columbia Studios and

523
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:12,460
saying hey fellas

524
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:14,530
I got a great name for the movie Close

525
00:25:17,940 --> 00:25:16,360
Encounters of the Third Kind first of

526
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:17,950
all I was wanting to sit on a poster and

527
00:25:22,289 --> 00:25:19,870
then in the posters and the trailers

528
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:22,299
they had to explain what the title meant

529
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:24,250
so it is not really good they teach you

530
00:25:35,549 --> 00:25:32,770
in branding 101 exactly huh say what man

531
00:25:39,169 --> 00:25:35,559
had to pony up money to my father to pay

532
00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:39,179
for the rights of the title to boot now

533
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:44,590
so backed directly to to my point do you

534
00:25:49,289 --> 00:25:46,690
think because Spielberg has never let

535
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:49,299
his foot off the gas when it comes to

536
00:25:54,570 --> 00:25:52,510
this subject he's done more alien ET

537
00:25:58,409 --> 00:25:54,580
contact films than any other director in

538
00:26:03,330 --> 00:25:58,419
the history of cinema is is Stephen in

539
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:03,340
the know you know I don't know I you

540
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:05,710
know at the very least he like many

541
00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:06,880
people have this

542
00:26:12,540 --> 00:26:10,300
deep-seated interest in finding out if

543
00:26:14,820 --> 00:26:12,550
there have been visitations from either

544
00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:14,830
other planets other dimensions or

545
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:17,640
someplace else now let's talk about you

546
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:22,480
personally have you have you made

547
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:24,730
contact have you seen anything strange

548
00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:25,570
in the sky

549
00:26:30,570 --> 00:26:28,030
oh I'm relieved I thought you're gonna

550
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:30,580
ask me am i from somewhere else I'm from

551
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:34,000
Illinois so I think I think you're a

552
00:26:38,850 --> 00:26:36,370
hybrid I'm just gonna go straight out

553
00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:38,860
and say that now yeah well I can tell

554
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:40,360
you after the shell I can tell you a

555
00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:44,350
really funny hybrid story you know yes

556
00:26:51,810 --> 00:26:47,590
it's part of a long answer but I do feel

557
00:26:56,670 --> 00:26:51,820
I may have made some contact but it's

558
00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:56,680
not what people would think explain okay

559
00:27:00,510 --> 00:26:58,450
so there's a little bit of a preface I

560
00:27:05,010 --> 00:27:00,520
have to get for this so my father

561
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:05,020
Jacques Vallee and others over time came

562
00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:06,970
to feel that there is certainly a

563
00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:09,430
phenomena you know the sort of way my

564
00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:11,260
father's portrayed quite often is that

565
00:27:15,420 --> 00:27:13,480
he went from a skeptic to a believer but

566
00:27:17,670 --> 00:27:15,430
my father was a scientist and I don't

567
00:27:20,010 --> 00:27:17,680
think the word believer is really

568
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:20,020
appropriate for a scientist she didn't

569
00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:23,890
really believe in UFOs over time he grew

570
00:27:28,740 --> 00:27:26,380
to accept the credibility of the

571
00:27:30,780 --> 00:27:28,750
accumulated weight of the evidence that

572
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:30,790
hey there is something here and it was

573
00:27:34,350 --> 00:27:32,320
annoying to him he didn't want this to

574
00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:34,360
be true you know he thought it was all

575
00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:37,180
at first post-war Bunco right so over

576
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,620
time you came to feel there is a

577
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:40,720
phenomenon now that's a whole different

578
00:27:46,140 --> 00:27:42,730
matter than the provenance of where they

579
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:46,150
is or whoever may come from and that's

580
00:27:51,330 --> 00:27:49,240
more speculation but over time he

581
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:51,340
started to feel that this sort of

582
00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:53,970
knee-jerk extra-terrestrial hypothesis

583
00:27:58,800 --> 00:27:56,440
kind of fell flat in a lot of cases

584
00:28:01,650 --> 00:27:58,810
because first of all they have to come

585
00:28:04,290 --> 00:28:01,660
from enormous distances and tweek

586
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:04,300
Einstein in the nose on the way here we

587
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:07,510
have super sensitive instruments to

588
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:10,720
detect objects entering and leaving our

589
00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:12,880
atmosphere and we don't have the

590
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:14,950
corresponding number of those to go

591
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:17,200
along with visual sightings of crafts

592
00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:20,840
plus the craft that people report see

593
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:23,750
a lot of comfort with our earth gravity

594
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:26,960
and atmosphere so and then through media

595
00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:30,320
I add on you know I believe that we will

596
00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:32,500
have our singularity which means

597
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:34,600
technicial intelligence will become

598
00:28:38,260 --> 00:28:36,529
self-aware and recursively

599
00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:38,270
self-improving and we see dystopian

600
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,710
visions of that and matrix and

601
00:28:43,450 --> 00:28:41,600
terminator etc I don't believe in that I

602
00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:43,460
believe more like my friend Ray Kurzweil

603
00:28:50,049 --> 00:28:46,070
it'll be more sort of blending and

604
00:28:52,180 --> 00:28:50,059
merging now if a society on another

605
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:52,190
planet has gone has the ability to come

606
00:28:56,409 --> 00:28:54,710
here it's almost certainly the case that

607
00:28:59,289 --> 00:28:56,419
they've had their own singularity in

608
00:29:01,060 --> 00:28:59,299
which case there's no need and no

609
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:01,070
interest for them to come here so I have

610
00:29:04,690 --> 00:29:02,690
a lot of issues with the

611
00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:04,700
extra-terrestrial Pappas's so that all

612
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:07,190
leads me to answer your question my

613
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:10,250
father and Jacques and others started to

614
00:29:13,570 --> 00:29:11,570
feel that there must there could be

615
00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:13,580
something else even more exotic than

616
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:15,529
extraterrestrial like interdimensional

617
00:29:21,310 --> 00:29:19,370
as an origin to explain some of these

618
00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:21,320
because also some of the cases they

619
00:29:25,389 --> 00:29:23,809
exhibit Cheshire cat like phenomena you

620
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:25,399
see it here then you see it there right

621
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:28,399
violating all known laws of physics so

622
00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:31,570
for me an interdimensional hypothesis

623
00:29:37,659 --> 00:29:34,760
answers first how they could be here

624
00:29:40,539 --> 00:29:37,669
because they're here adjacent let's say

625
00:29:42,850 --> 00:29:40,549
already it explains why they would be

626
00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:42,860
interested in us because they are maybe

627
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:46,190
us or in the same kind of dimension

628
00:29:50,350 --> 00:29:48,320
space it explained why they may be

629
00:29:55,930 --> 00:29:50,360
interested in nuclear plants which a lot

630
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:55,940
of crafts are apparently watching and it

631
00:30:01,060 --> 00:29:57,770
shoots down all the problems with the

632
00:30:04,539 --> 00:30:01,070
extra trust or hypothesis so my dear

633
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:04,549
Jimmy that mean that so I was told by a

634
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:06,529
friend of mine Nova Spivak about a book

635
00:30:13,299 --> 00:30:09,919
called alien information theory I don't

636
00:30:15,070 --> 00:30:13,309
know if you've heard of that I have okay

637
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:15,080
now you gotta love it from the title

638
00:30:19,330 --> 00:30:17,570
alone alien friggin information theory

639
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:19,340
come on now right okay

640
00:30:27,789 --> 00:30:23,200
you sold me so I read it and it's about

641
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:27,799
DMT and the commonality of reports of

642
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:30,110
DMT which is the most powerful

643
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:32,690
psychedelic drug in the world and about

644
00:30:36,910 --> 00:30:34,650
the commonality of reports

645
00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:36,920
of users who take it who feel

646
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:39,870
transported to what feels like a hyper

647
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:44,610
real dimension that is that has entities

648
00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:48,510
there okay and let's take let's meet me

649
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:50,340
to take our break so let's do that this

650
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:52,740
perfect spot to do that or a guest

651
00:31:00,500 --> 00:30:56,010
tonight Paul Hynek and will continue the

652
00:31:02,270 --> 00:31:00,510
DMT a whole I promise short break

653
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:02,280
this is fade to black I'm your host

654
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:04,290
Jimmy Church on the game changer Network

655
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:06,570
in kg RA the planet our guest tonight

656
00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:09,090
Paul Hynek we'll be right back after

657
00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:11,140
this short break stay with us

658
00:31:34,290 --> 00:31:31,850
[Music]

659
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:34,300
welcome back fade to black I'm here to

660
00:31:40,170 --> 00:31:35,530
meet church so I guess the night ball hi

661
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:40,180
knit and this is what's interesting got

662
00:31:45,870 --> 00:31:41,890
a couple of events coming up this year

663
00:31:50,180 --> 00:31:45,880
and contact in the desert and Paul is

664
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:50,190
going to be on my disclosure panel on

665
00:31:55,410 --> 00:31:52,930
Sunday night and then coming up later on

666
00:31:59,220 --> 00:31:55,420
in the year is Apollo Harris and star

667
00:32:02,460 --> 00:31:59,230
works USA and Paul will also be with me

668
00:32:03,450 --> 00:32:02,470
at that conference and that one is what

669
00:32:05,310 --> 00:32:03,460
we're talking about right now you

670
00:32:08,430 --> 00:32:05,320
opposed an artificial intelligence

671
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:08,440
that's November fit or six through the

672
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:11,200
8th in Laughlin Nevada and for tickets

673
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:13,210
and info you can go to star works USA

674
00:32:17,550 --> 00:32:15,250
and contacting the desert of course

675
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:17,560
contact in the desert calm but it's

676
00:32:23,850 --> 00:32:20,290
pretty interesting Paul finally it's the

677
00:32:26,250 --> 00:32:23,860
Jimmy and Paul tour 2020 I'm pretty

678
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:26,260
excited about that yeah and what what's

679
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:28,210
it like for you I'm going to get back to

680
00:32:34,370 --> 00:32:31,210
the DMT conversation huh but for you to

681
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:34,380
go out and and attend these conferences

682
00:32:40,050 --> 00:32:37,690
and you get to meet you know these

683
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:40,060
attendees that come up and and know

684
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:43,290
about you personally they know all about

685
00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:46,390
what's that like to hang out with the

686
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:50,710
UFO community it's exhilarating and you

687
00:32:56,130 --> 00:32:52,480
know the first time I did it I think was

688
00:32:59,910 --> 00:32:56,140
an alien Con in support of Project Blue

689
00:33:02,070 --> 00:32:59,920
Book and I was part of a panel with the

690
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:02,080
producers and and some of the actors and

691
00:33:05,790 --> 00:33:04,210
after we were done I'm walking offstage

692
00:33:07,620 --> 00:33:05,800
and a bunch of people came running up to

693
00:33:10,410 --> 00:33:07,630
me with books to sign and things like

694
00:33:12,990 --> 00:33:10,420
that and I thought well why would I sign

695
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:13,000
this but I realized that I was just sort

696
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:15,730
of reflecting my dad and that people who

697
00:33:21,390 --> 00:33:18,850
felt three years that my dad had given

698
00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:21,400
them permission so to speak or ground

699
00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:25,150
cover for them to say to talk about one

700
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:26,830
of the most traumatic experiences as

701
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:29,650
they felt they'd had they felt that they

702
00:33:34,020 --> 00:33:31,600
could do that and and and since some of

703
00:33:35,730 --> 00:33:34,030
that about my father with me there so

704
00:33:38,550 --> 00:33:35,740
that was something I saw where I could

705
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:38,560
see what my father must have gone

706
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:41,110
through and it became really fun you

707
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:43,030
know it's the one environment I can walk

708
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:44,930
in that people see my name

709
00:33:49,930 --> 00:33:46,730
badge and they understand who I am right

710
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:49,940
away kind of Google check name yeah yeah

711
00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:53,840
it's no question about that and the the

712
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:56,750
question about inner dimension is

713
00:34:01,630 --> 00:33:58,250
certainly with your father in Jacques

714
00:34:03,910 --> 00:34:01,640
valet yeah and this coming up so many

715
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:03,920
years ago your dad

716
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:06,050
well Jacque has always been a forward

717
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:09,650
you know thinking guy oh yeah but your

718
00:34:13,870 --> 00:34:12,350
dad was of the same mindset he he was a

719
00:34:17,710 --> 00:34:13,880
forward thinker when it came to this

720
00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:17,720
question well you know I think the way a

721
00:34:21,790 --> 00:34:19,730
lot of scientists think is they don't

722
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:21,800
you know there's a saying I was a grand

723
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:24,320
marshal for the March for science in LA

724
00:34:30,270 --> 00:34:28,070
in 2017 like 50,000 people and I and

725
00:34:31,870 --> 00:34:30,280
some others are in the sort of lead

726
00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:31,880
electric Hummers

727
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:34,310
so I had a bird's-eye view of all 50,000

728
00:34:38,260 --> 00:34:36,530
people and one of the signs I saw there

729
00:34:41,350 --> 00:34:38,270
which sometimes is attributed to Richard

730
00:34:43,810 --> 00:34:41,360
Fineman said I'd rather have questions I

731
00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:43,820
can't answer than answers I can't

732
00:34:48,010 --> 00:34:45,950
question right I think that breaks down

733
00:34:50,620 --> 00:34:48,020
the world into two groups and as a

734
00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:50,630
scientist you know to put that into

735
00:34:56,980 --> 00:34:53,600
practice let's say you come across what

736
00:34:59,530 --> 00:34:56,990
has the faint impression of perhaps a

737
00:35:02,350 --> 00:34:59,540
new phenomena you shouldn't close it off

738
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:02,360
too quickly even if it doesn't comport

739
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:05,060
with your with what do you think is at

740
00:35:08,740 --> 00:35:07,040
work or it's not consistent with the

741
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:08,750
grant you're going after it may be

742
00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:10,640
annoying and press even you know

743
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:12,920
detrimental to your career but you need

744
00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:15,050
to keep your mind open and at the same

745
00:35:19,780 --> 00:35:17,990
time at the same time once you've

746
00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:19,790
determined hey there may be a phenomenon

747
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:23,270
here don't rush to judgment by grabbing

748
00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:26,240
the best available answer and shoving

749
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:28,600
that in because the answer may be either

750
00:35:33,550 --> 00:35:31,370
different types of solutions or

751
00:35:35,980 --> 00:35:33,560
something more complex than you thought

752
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:35,990
so I think a scientist doesn't rush to

753
00:35:41,950 --> 00:35:38,870
one answer but will eliminate other

754
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:41,960
things first and so the issue the theory

755
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:44,450
of extraterrestrial it may account for

756
00:35:46,810 --> 00:35:45,890
some things I mean the universe is

757
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:46,820
teeming with life

758
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:49,730
it may account for some cases I don't

759
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:51,530
know but it certainly doesn't seem to

760
00:35:55,390 --> 00:35:53,690
account for all of them so that's what

761
00:35:58,099 --> 00:35:55,400
led Jacque and my father and and many

762
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:58,109
others to say this phenomena

763
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:00,660
seems to have aspects that go above and

764
00:36:05,390 --> 00:36:03,119
beyond the nuts-and-bolts visitation

765
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:05,400
from other planets it would only make

766
00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:09,900
sense and the my you know through my own

767
00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:12,630
experiences that I've had with groups of

768
00:36:20,029 --> 00:36:16,859
people where things appear to just

769
00:36:23,329 --> 00:36:20,039
appear and things seem to disappear as

770
00:36:25,609 --> 00:36:23,339
quick as they appeared and you start to

771
00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:25,619
question your own like wait a minute

772
00:36:30,019 --> 00:36:27,480
here I'm trying to be rational I'm

773
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:30,029
trying to be objective but that doesn't

774
00:36:34,210 --> 00:36:31,710
make any sense and the only thing that

775
00:36:35,989 --> 00:36:34,220
would make sense is to suggest a

776
00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:35,999
parallel world

777
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:38,940
interdimensional multiverse aspect to

778
00:36:47,390 --> 00:36:42,359
this which also satisfies the physics

779
00:36:49,729 --> 00:36:47,400
side of it too like my friend Michael

780
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:49,739
masters thinks that they may be us from

781
00:36:53,779 --> 00:36:51,569
the future that's right you know now

782
00:36:57,529 --> 00:36:53,789
that gets in the thorny issue of time

783
00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:57,539
travel so you know the the idea that

784
00:37:01,700 --> 00:36:59,220
there's perhaps another dimension or

785
00:37:04,849 --> 00:37:01,710
other dimensions and when I came across

786
00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:04,859
DMT I thought that was fascinating and

787
00:37:09,319 --> 00:37:06,630
what happened was I was told about it by

788
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:09,329
my friend Nova Spivak and I had heard

789
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,529
about DMT but hadn't really considered

790
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,680
it because he asked me what my father

791
00:37:16,999 --> 00:37:15,359
thought was the answer and I told him he

792
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:17,009
said you should read that book two hours

793
00:37:21,650 --> 00:37:18,960
later I met with another new a new

794
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:21,660
friend and he started talking about DMT

795
00:37:26,989 --> 00:37:23,880
I figured okay the universe is talking

796
00:37:29,539 --> 00:37:26,999
to me so in addition to my committed

797
00:37:31,789 --> 00:37:29,549
status as a fade or not I thought I

798
00:37:35,569 --> 00:37:31,799
should become a Psychonauts and try it

799
00:37:38,269 --> 00:37:35,579
myself okay hold on a minute now now

800
00:37:43,309 --> 00:37:38,279
this is where we pump the brakes I I

801
00:37:48,739 --> 00:37:43,319
know that you're cool but mentioning DMT

802
00:37:52,099 --> 00:37:48,749
research coming from you is a little bit

803
00:37:54,220 --> 00:37:52,109
confusing so it's one thing to comment

804
00:37:58,130 --> 00:37:54,230
on the DMT information that's out there

805
00:37:58,770 --> 00:37:58,140
but it's another thing to go full

806
00:38:01,530 --> 00:37:58,780
committed

807
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,540
[Laughter]

808
00:38:07,290 --> 00:38:04,480
yeah let's let's continue this right

809
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:07,300
right hopefully I don't get full

810
00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:12,850
committed and another thing you know if

811
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:15,640
this is a strand of my father's and

812
00:38:19,140 --> 00:38:16,570
jacque's

813
00:38:22,590 --> 00:38:19,150
and Paula Harris's and others research

814
00:38:25,230 --> 00:38:22,600
theories right so now here's a chance

815
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:25,240
because you know I also read the spirit

816
00:38:29,820 --> 00:38:27,250
molecule by Rick Strassman and a lot of

817
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:29,830
stuff online and you know DMT is a

818
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:31,450
naturally occurring substance secreted

819
00:38:35,970 --> 00:38:33,250
by the pineal gland and it sends

820
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:35,980
thousands of plants it's cursing through

821
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:39,850
the natural world and people think that

822
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:41,680
you know the idea is they could be a

823
00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:43,810
portal to another dimension now since

824
00:38:47,790 --> 00:38:45,430
it's an extremely powerful psychedelic

825
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:47,800
it could just be this this chemical

826
00:38:51,660 --> 00:38:49,450
stripping with your mind you can't rule

827
00:38:52,620 --> 00:38:51,670
that out but I thought in the interest

828
00:38:58,110 --> 00:38:52,630
of science

829
00:39:00,930 --> 00:38:58,120
I would pick up the mantle and do my own

830
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:00,940
exploration and see what's there and

831
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:07,270
what did you find out so I read up on

832
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:09,550
experiences and I knew what to do

833
00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:12,910
and my first experience it is this stuff

834
00:39:19,620 --> 00:39:16,030
shoots you out of a cannon and if I had

835
00:39:22,350 --> 00:39:19,630
done psychedelic drugs in the past this

836
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,360
was a thousand times stronger than all

837
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:24,640
of them put together if I had done any

838
00:39:29,790 --> 00:39:27,690
in the past and what I experienced was

839
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:29,800
similar to what other people have

840
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:31,330
reported which is the kind of

841
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:33,250
commonality my father found interesting

842
00:39:38,820 --> 00:39:36,310
in UFO reports that I was shocked

843
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:38,830
through this sort of unbelievably

844
00:39:45,060 --> 00:39:42,270
visually rich colorful wormhole and

845
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:45,070
wound up somewhere and I didn't really

846
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:46,960
think hey this is another dimension it

847
00:39:54,810 --> 00:39:51,070
just felt somewhere so real and I felt

848
00:39:57,540 --> 00:39:54,820
in whether I saw or not I don't know but

849
00:40:00,360 --> 00:39:57,550
I perceived sort of the fabric of the

850
00:40:04,860 --> 00:40:00,370
universe being created and Joe Rogan is

851
00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:04,870
called it complex patterns made of love

852
00:40:10,610 --> 00:40:07,870
and understanding right and that sums it

853
00:40:14,220 --> 00:40:10,620
up pretty well to me and there was a

854
00:40:14,740 --> 00:40:14,230
mostly female presence surging all

855
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:14,750
around

856
00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:17,930
once I got my sea legs so to speak I

857
00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:22,849
actually asked hey are you what we

858
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:27,230
perceive to be aliens and UFOs you know

859
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:31,760
and if sort of a cosmic intelligence can

860
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:35,330
sigh its side and then the answer I got

861
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:35,930
back

862
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:41,510
Jimmy was well we can't explain in a way

863
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:43,450
that you would understand

864
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:46,010
and it wasn't condescending it wasn't

865
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:50,570
snarky and I thought okay well I

866
00:40:58,780 --> 00:40:53,690
understand no so it sounds like there's

867
00:41:02,280 --> 00:40:58,790
some amount of yes in your answer so to

868
00:41:06,099 --> 00:41:02,290
me that was a tantalizing first

869
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:06,109
potential contact and I plan to go back

870
00:41:17,950 --> 00:41:13,280
and expand the conversation I am

871
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:17,960
fascinated right now the okay okay okay

872
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:18,560
okay

873
00:41:33,849 --> 00:41:29,440
questions I can only ask one the did you

874
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:33,859
visually make an assessment of this

875
00:41:41,620 --> 00:41:38,930
female presence you know it's hard to

876
00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:41,630
say because it's so overwhelming I don't

877
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:43,550
know if I heard things stall things or

878
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:45,530
things appeared in my mind right all

879
00:41:51,220 --> 00:41:49,609
kind of humbly jumbly but I did feel and

880
00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:51,230
just because I felt that it's real it

881
00:41:54,370 --> 00:41:52,670
really doesn't matter it's like my

882
00:41:55,810 --> 00:41:54,380
father would discount single witness

883
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,820
cases because there's just no

884
00:42:00,460 --> 00:41:57,920
corroborating evidence also you could

885
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:00,470
say well hey Paul you read a whole bunch

886
00:42:03,940 --> 00:42:02,210
of accounts or like this you tainted

887
00:42:05,710 --> 00:42:03,950
yourself and you planted the seed right

888
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:05,720
that could be the case - sure

889
00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:09,530
all I know is I felt that it was super

890
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:11,300
real and I certainly came back with the

891
00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:14,240
impression my experience was far more

892
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:17,630
interesting enough to trip the wire for

893
00:42:23,020 --> 00:42:19,520
me to want to do it again and to see if

894
00:42:26,589 --> 00:42:23,030
I can't document it and apply some kind

895
00:42:28,510 --> 00:42:26,599
of scientific rubric to it to replicate

896
00:42:30,370 --> 00:42:28,520
it and expand upon it and you know

897
00:42:32,350 --> 00:42:30,380
Rick Strassman he wrote spirit molecule

898
00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:32,360
and Andrew Gallimore who I'll meet

899
00:42:36,340 --> 00:42:33,740
because we're both going to be speaking

900
00:42:39,130 --> 00:42:36,350
at contact in the desert as you know

901
00:42:40,930 --> 00:42:39,140
right and I want to talk with him and

902
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,940
say look I'm coming at this from the UFO

903
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:42,560
point of view you're coming at it from

904
00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:45,230
DMT let's try to work together and see

905
00:42:50,590 --> 00:42:46,420
if we can create something here

906
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:50,600
shouldn't the should in the scientific

907
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,030
community especially when you're talking

908
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:55,280
about theoretical physics and quantum

909
00:43:00,610 --> 00:42:57,890
physics and entanglement which is

910
00:43:03,820 --> 00:43:00,620
suggesting strongly by the numbers by

911
00:43:06,610 --> 00:43:03,830
the equations a parallel worlds the

912
00:43:10,270 --> 00:43:06,620
multiverse extra dimensions a string

913
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:10,280
theory all of these things that

914
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:13,510
physicists want us to grasp hold of are

915
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:16,190
certainly all of the things that our

916
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:19,370
community has been talking about for

917
00:43:26,620 --> 00:43:22,010
thousands of years and and they are

918
00:43:29,740 --> 00:43:26,630
merging shouldn't DMT be scientifically

919
00:43:32,170 --> 00:43:29,750
investigated as a way to access the

920
00:43:34,990 --> 00:43:32,180
parallel world that they've been trying

921
00:43:39,310 --> 00:43:35,000
to convince us of right isn't that where

922
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:39,320
we are at absolutely you know but you

923
00:43:44,860 --> 00:43:42,130
know there is a sort of resurgence in

924
00:43:47,530 --> 00:43:44,870
legitimacy and credibility of

925
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:47,540
psychedelics in general you know the in

926
00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:50,090
the 50s they had they weren't they

927
00:43:54,850 --> 00:43:52,310
weren't illegal they became illegal

928
00:43:57,210 --> 00:43:54,860
schedule one and schedule two etc but

929
00:44:00,970 --> 00:43:57,220
now there's been a very widespread

930
00:44:03,130 --> 00:44:00,980
resurgence in psilocybin MDMA and other

931
00:44:07,210 --> 00:44:03,140
psychedelics as powerful therapeutic

932
00:44:10,810 --> 00:44:07,220
tools but from perhaps my experience and

933
00:44:15,450 --> 00:44:10,820
what I've gleaned from others DMT seems

934
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:15,460
to be unique in this possibility of a

935
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:20,330
window to some other entities or another

936
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:23,930
dimension or you know something a

937
00:44:30,270 --> 00:44:26,210
Trippier wreath of your online you know

938
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:30,280
yeah that could be - that could be now

939
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:33,770
I'm not gonna let this get away did you

940
00:44:42,250 --> 00:44:36,410
did you get an opportunity to go back

941
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:42,260
and ask the second question so I

942
00:44:46,780 --> 00:44:44,720
I've done it more and my experiences

943
00:44:49,090 --> 00:44:46,790
were different the subsequent times and

944
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:49,100
they were sort of more cathartic ly

945
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:52,610
emotionally internal and my my very good

946
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:56,000
friend who was my facilitator said that

947
00:44:59,830 --> 00:44:57,890
the plant medicine wanted to give me a

948
00:45:01,570 --> 00:44:59,840
different experience and that it was

949
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:01,580
giving me what it felt I needed as

950
00:45:09,220 --> 00:45:05,690
opposed to what I wanted so you know

951
00:45:12,370 --> 00:45:09,230
it's just for me to hear about them one

952
00:45:15,420 --> 00:45:12,380
of the more exotic theories that my

953
00:45:17,980 --> 00:45:15,430
father and others had and to have a

954
00:45:21,070 --> 00:45:17,990
potential way to investigate that

955
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:21,080
presented in a really well well

956
00:45:25,930 --> 00:45:23,180
researched in scientific manner is - too

957
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:25,940
good to pass up and it's just the fact

958
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:28,310
that it happens to be super fun it's

959
00:45:35,530 --> 00:45:32,330
just icing on the cake Jimmy the the

960
00:45:38,730 --> 00:45:35,540
descriptions of it which I have read oh

961
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:38,740
by the way disclaimer here I have not

962
00:45:46,180 --> 00:45:42,290
researched DMT personally I have

963
00:45:48,340 --> 00:45:46,190
certainly talked to a lot of people

964
00:45:50,590 --> 00:45:48,350
about it and I've done the same research

965
00:45:54,570 --> 00:45:50,600
that you have done into other people's

966
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:54,580
experiences there is a bona fide

967
00:46:01,440 --> 00:45:57,910
similarity that is identical with

968
00:46:04,930 --> 00:46:01,450
everybody's experience and that I find

969
00:46:07,810 --> 00:46:04,940
tremendously compelling and yeah and

970
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:07,820
everybody's suggests one thing over and

971
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:12,170
over again it's another world it is an

972
00:46:18,850 --> 00:46:15,410
access it is certainly that you are

973
00:46:23,070 --> 00:46:18,860
accessing another dimension you are not

974
00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:23,080
here and it was that your experience

975
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,630
yeah and you know again people can say

976
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:28,640
well if you've read about this

977
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:30,890
beforehand you have something for your

978
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:32,690
mind to latch on to because there's such

979
00:46:36,310 --> 00:46:34,730
a powerful experience and it provides

980
00:46:38,410 --> 00:46:36,320
this comforting thing to you this sort

981
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:38,420
of known paradigm but the first time I

982
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:41,690
did it I had my friend whose name rhymes

983
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:45,710
with keg Gaetano with us and he didn't

984
00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:47,690
know he hadn't read anything about it he

985
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:49,670
had no prior conceptions of what you

986
00:46:55,450 --> 00:46:52,250
might expect he's a pretty brave guy and

987
00:46:56,110 --> 00:46:55,460
after we both did it my friend the

988
00:46:57,460 --> 00:46:56,120
facilitator

989
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:57,470
I looked at him first and what did you

990
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:01,040
experience and his Rick his report was

991
00:47:05,470 --> 00:47:03,650
extremely similar also having not heard

992
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:05,480
about anybody others cases which I find

993
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:07,130
which I found very compelling yeah

994
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:07,910
exactly

995
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:15,530
and now how much of the experience is

996
00:47:23,230 --> 00:47:19,970
what I have read one it's a good 15

997
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:23,240
minutes you come out of it with your

998
00:47:29,260 --> 00:47:25,850
feet on the ground you know you are you

999
00:47:33,070 --> 00:47:29,270
are back to if normal is the right word

1000
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:33,080
very very quickly there's that part of

1001
00:47:40,210 --> 00:47:37,040
it but you are also able to recall and

1002
00:47:44,590 --> 00:47:40,220
remember all of it so the same thing for

1003
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,600
you the first part yes they called the

1004
00:47:49,210 --> 00:47:46,400
business man's high because it is like

1005
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:49,220
15 minutes and I I told my friends that

1006
00:47:53,770 --> 00:47:51,650
after it I'd take us out to dinner but

1007
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:53,780
after and and there is no after 15

1008
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:54,890
minutes you're back and you're fully

1009
00:47:58,360 --> 00:47:56,810
present but you're just not in the mood

1010
00:48:00,010 --> 00:47:58,370
to go to say Applebee's

1011
00:48:03,130 --> 00:48:00,020
because your world has been upturned

1012
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:03,140
right and you still mean I feel like I

1013
00:48:06,970 --> 00:48:06,170
only remember one or two percent of the

1014
00:48:09,970 --> 00:48:06,980
overall experience

1015
00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:09,980
and part of that is because there's so

1016
00:48:17,050 --> 00:48:14,270
much coming at you that our five sensor

1017
00:48:19,150 --> 00:48:17,060
our 5 senses are just not nearly enough

1018
00:48:22,450 --> 00:48:19,160
to input it and maybe we're accessing

1019
00:48:24,990 --> 00:48:22,460
something else it's like you have a 300

1020
00:48:27,730 --> 00:48:25,000
baud modem and they're coming at you

1021
00:48:30,250 --> 00:48:27,740
full you know high-speed fiber-optic

1022
00:48:34,180 --> 00:48:30,260
it's just too much information coming at

1023
00:48:36,970 --> 00:48:34,190
you so even if you do remember what you

1024
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:36,980
think is all of it you can't intake

1025
00:48:43,570 --> 00:48:40,810
anywhere near all of it at the same time

1026
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:43,580
that was my that was my feeling full

1027
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:45,920
color panchromatic

1028
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:49,490
oh yeah yeah the most vibrant colors you

1029
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:50,450
know they almost gets to be like

1030
00:48:55,180 --> 00:48:52,730
synesthesia where colors take on

1031
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:55,190
different aspects it's just unlike

1032
00:49:00,420 --> 00:48:57,530
anything I've seen before now there's a

1033
00:49:07,090 --> 00:49:00,430
there's another aspect to psychedelics

1034
00:49:09,940 --> 00:49:07,100
which you know it's just a trip you're

1035
00:49:12,579 --> 00:49:09,950
just high yeah ok that's it's

1036
00:49:15,370 --> 00:49:12,589
it's it's it's fun you're doing this

1037
00:49:17,890 --> 00:49:15,380
recreationally you know that you may

1038
00:49:20,770 --> 00:49:17,900
have insights to your own mind and

1039
00:49:23,319 --> 00:49:20,780
emotions and your own spirituality but

1040
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:23,329
that's all by choice you know and it's

1041
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:25,910
and it's how you want to experience it

1042
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:29,510
with with DMT I don't you know same

1043
00:49:36,220 --> 00:49:31,910
thing with ayahuasca I'm sure but with

1044
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:36,230
DMT that is not necessarily the case you

1045
00:49:39,780 --> 00:49:38,690
are not in control of any of this are

1046
00:50:09,910 --> 00:49:39,790
you

1047
00:50:12,490 --> 00:50:09,920
so yeah it's qualitatively different

1048
00:50:15,550 --> 00:50:12,500
than anything else I'm aware is there a

1049
00:50:19,089 --> 00:50:15,560
way Paul before we hit the break is

1050
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:19,099
there a way to to take this into a lab

1051
00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:22,640
setting and and scientifically start to

1052
00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:26,270
try to understand what is going on yeah

1053
00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:27,680
so so Rick Strassman

1054
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:30,829
and Andrew Gallimore are working on a

1055
00:50:35,470 --> 00:50:33,290
formulation where you can have an IV

1056
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:35,480
drip and and stay in there for a much

1057
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:37,130
longer period of time because part of

1058
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:38,510
the issue is kind of like lucid dreams

1059
00:50:41,740 --> 00:50:39,920
they're very fleeting you get in there

1060
00:50:45,099 --> 00:50:41,750
and you have low experience and you're

1061
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:45,109
gone so their idea is to allow people to

1062
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:47,510
inhabit or to feel like they're in that

1063
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:49,760
realm for a much longer period of time

1064
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:52,130
and really set about the business of

1065
00:50:56,890 --> 00:50:54,650
trying to figure out hey is there a way

1066
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:56,900
to sort of make contact and improve the

1067
00:51:02,290 --> 00:51:00,319
existence of it and what about before we

1068
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:02,300
hit the break I had asked you earlier if

1069
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:04,450
you had seen anything strange in the sky

1070
00:51:11,260 --> 00:51:08,930
have you had you know an experience

1071
00:51:13,930 --> 00:51:11,270
where you've gone out and looked up and

1072
00:51:15,059 --> 00:51:13,940
maybe expected or not but you saw

1073
00:51:19,660 --> 00:51:15,069
something

1074
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:19,670
no I I've not seen anything nor had any

1075
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:22,640
contact with what I would consider a UFO

1076
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:23,910
and what about

1077
00:51:29,180 --> 00:51:26,490
your father there's there's the public

1078
00:51:33,140 --> 00:51:29,190
side but then there's the private side

1079
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:33,150
as did he ever confide with you well

1080
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:35,010
there were there were maybe

1081
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:37,650
one-and-a-half sightings that he felt he

1082
00:51:42,140 --> 00:51:39,839
had and he actually took a picture this

1083
00:51:46,609 --> 00:51:42,150
isn't one of his books of a craft from

1084
00:51:50,660 --> 00:51:46,619
an airplane but you know like I said

1085
00:51:52,549 --> 00:51:50,670
before single witness cases without any

1086
00:51:55,130 --> 00:51:52,559
corroboration they're interesting but

1087
00:51:58,279 --> 00:51:55,140
they're not as sort of good in a sort of

1088
00:52:00,200 --> 00:51:58,289
abstract petri dish as a multiple in

1089
00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:00,210
this case would radar corroboration and

1090
00:52:05,059 --> 00:52:03,089
you know things like that and also my

1091
00:52:07,940 --> 00:52:05,069
father was somewhat reticent to talk

1092
00:52:10,299 --> 00:52:07,950
about cases that he may have seen

1093
00:52:14,059 --> 00:52:10,309
because he was much more comfortable

1094
00:52:16,099 --> 00:52:14,069
inhabiting that that that area of being

1095
00:52:18,170 --> 00:52:16,109
an impartial scientist with a flashlight

1096
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:18,180
letting the chips fall where they may

1097
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:21,690
as exposed to an experiencer in his own

1098
00:52:26,450 --> 00:52:24,559
right because that was just not really

1099
00:52:27,799 --> 00:52:26,460
comfortable for a scientist you know

1100
00:52:30,049 --> 00:52:27,809
there were three groups and now we have

1101
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:30,059
to stop it there were three groups that

1102
00:52:35,359 --> 00:52:33,150
he felt he had to be aware of one was

1103
00:52:38,359 --> 00:52:35,369
the military and government community

1104
00:52:40,579 --> 00:52:38,369
one was mainstream scientists and one

1105
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,589
was us called them believers in the UFO

1106
00:52:45,049 --> 00:52:42,720
phenomena and I think he felt that he

1107
00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:45,059
had to keep each of those groups mildly

1108
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:47,910
unhappy to be doing a balanced job as a

1109
00:52:54,130 --> 00:52:52,079
scientist the famous video of your

1110
00:52:57,559 --> 00:52:54,140
father at the end of Project Blue Book

1111
00:53:01,309 --> 00:52:57,569
that those statements by him you can

1112
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:01,319
hear his disappointment and I feel like

1113
00:53:08,180 --> 00:53:05,910
he was holding back he was I don't think

1114
00:53:11,089 --> 00:53:08,190
he was saying what he really wanted to

1115
00:53:13,970 --> 00:53:11,099
say but I was also in 1969 it was a

1116
00:53:16,430 --> 00:53:13,980
different environment he may have said

1117
00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:16,440
something different in 2020 if it would

1118
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:18,630
have gone down the same way but how

1119
00:53:26,569 --> 00:53:24,170
disappointed was he really in 1969 well

1120
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:26,579
you know the Condon committee we can get

1121
00:53:32,359 --> 00:53:28,680
into the details and the machinations

1122
00:53:35,269 --> 00:53:32,369
but it's sort of the the something the

1123
00:53:37,970 --> 00:53:35,279
cover that the Air Force used to back

1124
00:53:39,620 --> 00:53:37,980
out of the Elysee at the

1125
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:39,630
of the UFO research business for the

1126
00:53:44,359 --> 00:53:41,730
public relations exercise that project

1127
00:53:46,310 --> 00:53:44,369
Bluebook had become the jury was in long

1128
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:46,320
before that even as early as 1953 in the

1129
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:49,200
Robertson panel my father knew all along

1130
00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:51,510
pretty much from the beginning that

1131
00:53:57,050 --> 00:53:54,390
projects grudge sign and then Blue Book

1132
00:53:59,810 --> 00:53:57,060
we're not serious scientific efforts to

1133
00:54:03,290 --> 00:53:59,820
recover and reverse-engineer propulsion

1134
00:54:08,210 --> 00:54:03,300
systems but were pxpr exercises to tamp

1135
00:54:09,770 --> 00:54:08,220
down public hysteria so my father you

1136
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:09,780
know debated whether or not to stay

1137
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:12,240
involved with the program James McDonald

1138
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:13,650
others criticized him for staying

1139
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:16,770
involved but he thought look yes this is

1140
00:54:22,940 --> 00:54:20,880
not science what's going on here but if

1141
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:22,950
I'm not here I don't have access to the

1142
00:54:27,980 --> 00:54:24,930
data and even more importantly he had

1143
00:54:30,260 --> 00:54:27,990
influence not control but influence over

1144
00:54:32,990 --> 00:54:30,270
what data was collected and how it was

1145
00:54:33,980 --> 00:54:33,000
assigned and reported so he had the

1146
00:54:35,540 --> 00:54:33,990
ability to do that and then he had

1147
00:54:36,859 --> 00:54:35,550
access to that data afterwards and

1148
00:54:38,510 --> 00:54:36,869
that's how he came up with the

1149
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:38,520
classification system close encounters

1150
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:39,570
of the first second and third kind

1151
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:42,240
because he had the crucial insight that

1152
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:45,359
he wasn't studying UFOs he was studying

1153
00:54:50,420 --> 00:54:48,720
UFO reports and so he applied a rubric

1154
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:50,430
to reports so that scientists around the

1155
00:54:55,940 --> 00:54:52,290
world could start to compare apples to

1156
00:54:58,640 --> 00:54:55,950
apples so he knew that it wasn't an

1157
00:55:00,890 --> 00:54:58,650
honest scientific exercise and he knew

1158
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:00,900
the Air Force's role this bill didn't

1159
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:02,490
mean it wasn't frustrating to him many

1160
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:05,280
times let's take our break right here

1161
00:55:10,010 --> 00:55:07,530
fascinating conversation and when we

1162
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:10,020
come back after the break we'll jump

1163
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:11,730
straight into the new series of course

1164
00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:14,130
Project Blue Book on History Channel our

1165
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:16,710
guest tonight is Paul Hynek and I got to

1166
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:19,650
tell you Paul that DMT conversation is

1167
00:55:27,380 --> 00:55:22,079
all over Twitter now we will be right

1168
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:27,390
back after this there you go this is

1169
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:02,330
[Music]

1170
00:56:08,890 --> 00:56:07,330
[Applause]

1171
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:08,900
[Music]

1172
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:12,090
all right welcome back fade to black our

1173
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:13,440
guest tonight Paul Hynek I don't want to

1174
00:56:18,020 --> 00:56:15,210
remind everybody Wednesday night we're

1175
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:18,030
gonna have Steve Marin live from the UK

1176
00:56:24,290 --> 00:56:23,130
and June 26th and 27th of 2020 we're

1177
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:24,300
taking fade to black

1178
00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:26,970
over to the United Kingdom and to Europe

1179
00:56:31,340 --> 00:56:28,590
to the awakening conference in

1180
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:31,350
Manchester you can go to awakening UFO

1181
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:33,810
calm for tickets and information it's

1182
00:56:38,210 --> 00:56:35,100
going to be great to finally make it

1183
00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:38,220
over to the UK and our guests I Paul

1184
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:41,430
Hynek and Paul we want to shift gears a

1185
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:41,940
little bit

1186
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:49,130
twitter is saying no stay on DMT but the

1187
00:56:56,180 --> 00:56:54,050
the hit series project Bluebook is a

1188
00:57:01,340 --> 00:56:56,190
success has been pretty extraordinary

1189
00:57:03,860 --> 00:57:01,350
and let's let's actually start where

1190
00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:03,870
everybody is expecting this conversation

1191
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:07,230
to start which is the depiction of your

1192
00:57:12,650 --> 00:57:10,010
family and your father and your mother

1193
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:12,660
there seems to be an extraordinary

1194
00:57:20,510 --> 00:57:17,570
amount of artistic license going on here

1195
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:20,520
are you okay I know you're a consulting

1196
00:57:26,020 --> 00:57:22,020
producer and you're an advisor on the

1197
00:57:29,420 --> 00:57:26,030
series but are you okay with that

1198
00:57:32,330 --> 00:57:29,430
yeah so one of the questions I get is it

1199
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:32,340
was your mother cavorting with a lesbian

1200
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:36,000
Russian spy of course and you know my

1201
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:38,370
stock answer to that is you should see

1202
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:42,330
the stuff they left out oh you know

1203
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:45,150
think about the show and yes my brother

1204
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:47,370
Joel and I are both consultants on the

1205
00:57:51,980 --> 00:57:49,290
show and we have a very good

1206
00:57:54,740 --> 00:57:51,990
relationship and friendships with the

1207
00:57:58,130 --> 00:57:54,750
cast the creator the showrunner the

1208
00:58:00,500 --> 00:57:58,140
producers on the networking folks so and

1209
00:58:03,230 --> 00:58:00,510
here's what I'll say it's a very

1210
00:58:06,590 --> 00:58:03,240
interesting premise to take real people

1211
00:58:09,770 --> 00:58:06,600
and real reports not necessarily real

1212
00:58:14,180 --> 00:58:09,780
events but real reports of UFO events

1213
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:14,190
and then later on first the first layer

1214
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:17,040
being sort of visualizations of what

1215
00:58:22,190 --> 00:58:19,110
people report and then yes

1216
00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:22,200
adding fictional elements and so

1217
00:58:25,569 --> 00:58:23,640
you know we all talked about that quite

1218
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:25,579
a lot will that work how do you do that

1219
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:28,050
and so one of the things that history is

1220
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:31,170
done you know is show the beginning of

1221
00:58:34,460 --> 00:58:33,359
the episode to learn more about about

1222
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:34,470
this especially the first season to

1223
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:36,510
learn more about the real reports click

1224
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:37,650
here and they've had interviews with

1225
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:39,510
Jacques wale and Richard Dolan and Joel

1226
00:58:43,490 --> 00:58:41,520
and I and others talking about some of

1227
00:58:45,140 --> 00:58:43,500
the things that were really reported so

1228
00:58:48,020 --> 00:58:45,150
the main thing that we determined was

1229
00:58:50,650 --> 00:58:48,030
the show is not going to be altogether

1230
00:58:54,170 --> 00:58:50,660
accurate because it's a dramatization

1231
00:58:57,770 --> 00:58:54,180
but what's important especially for Joel

1232
00:59:00,170 --> 00:58:57,780
and I representing our family is that

1233
00:59:04,099 --> 00:59:00,180
the show portray our mother and father

1234
00:59:06,980 --> 00:59:04,109
in an authentic way but not necessarily

1235
00:59:10,790 --> 00:59:06,990
accurate so we had quite a lot of talks

1236
00:59:14,420 --> 00:59:10,800
and met with Aidan Gillen my TV dad and

1237
00:59:16,819 --> 00:59:14,430
Laura Mandel my TV mom for them to get

1238
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:16,829
what they needed to understand about

1239
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:20,160
what really made our parents tick so

1240
00:59:25,220 --> 00:59:21,650
that they could take that sort of

1241
00:59:26,510 --> 00:59:25,230
emotional core and then have their

1242
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:26,520
characters with their own interpretation

1243
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:28,890
added on to it because they're talented

1244
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:32,720
artists and then put those characters in

1245
00:59:38,569 --> 00:59:36,089
stretched circumstances but still have

1246
00:59:41,809 --> 00:59:38,579
the characters acting way in ways that

1247
00:59:43,730 --> 00:59:41,819
are still consistent with that authentic

1248
00:59:45,890 --> 00:59:43,740
core and I think the show does that

1249
00:59:49,069 --> 00:59:45,900
successfully so for me you know the show

1250
00:59:51,470 --> 00:59:49,079
was about a scientist and and his wife

1251
00:59:56,540 --> 00:59:51,480
and you can see Mimi's emergence in

1252
00:59:59,809 --> 00:59:56,550
season two thrown into this super weird

1253
01:00:03,020 --> 00:59:59,819
environment and trying to understand it

1254
01:00:04,670 --> 01:00:03,030
and apply science to it and come around

1255
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,680
to think there is a phenomena there

1256
01:00:09,230 --> 01:00:06,720
which is what the father my father's arc

1257
01:00:11,420 --> 01:00:09,240
so to speak so the show does that in a

1258
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:11,430
very respectful way and everything else

1259
01:00:19,309 --> 01:00:13,770
is really fine-tuning and then there's

1260
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:19,319
the twist on this is for the audience

1261
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:22,890
out there that is watching this show you

1262
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:25,050
know maybe not 100 percent immersed into

1263
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:28,530
the UFO culture or research and is being

1264
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:30,890
introduced to it for the first time as

1265
01:00:38,250 --> 01:00:36,130
fact right and and they are now thinking

1266
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:38,260
that your dad was in an underground

1267
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:40,930
research laboratory in New Mexico that's

1268
01:00:48,420 --> 01:00:45,010
run by Verner von braun and your dad is

1269
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:48,430
looking at ETS and giant tanks being

1270
01:00:55,110 --> 01:00:52,570
grown and they walk away from the show

1271
01:00:57,870 --> 01:00:55,120
thinking that this actually happened is

1272
01:01:02,100 --> 01:00:57,880
there a concern with that that may be it

1273
01:01:05,810 --> 01:01:02,110
may be misleading some people well I

1274
01:01:08,130 --> 01:01:05,820
don't know I don't think that the show

1275
01:01:11,310 --> 01:01:08,140
portrays itself as an accurate

1276
01:01:13,140 --> 01:01:11,320
representation of everything I think

1277
01:01:16,530 --> 01:01:13,150
it's I think it's kind of commonly

1278
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:16,540
understood that it's fictionalized now

1279
01:01:22,740 --> 01:01:18,490
if some people do believe everything

1280
01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:22,750
they're okay more power to them but it's

1281
01:01:26,550 --> 01:01:25,150
not if you do it's not hard to fact

1282
01:01:28,890 --> 01:01:26,560
check and find out this not true in fact

1283
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:28,900
you can go to the history you know

1284
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:31,330
Channel website and find out you know

1285
01:01:36,410 --> 01:01:34,450
the real takes on the subject so I'm not

1286
01:01:40,050 --> 01:01:36,420
that worried about I think most people

1287
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:40,060
find that it's an interesting portrayal

1288
01:01:46,260 --> 01:01:42,640
now I've had people say hey look episode

1289
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:46,270
1 in season 1 the Gorman dogfight is the

1290
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:48,250
Fuller dogfight and it's banks left

1291
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:50,050
instead of right right oh they took

1292
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:52,000
apart so many aspects of the cases but

1293
01:01:56,250 --> 01:01:54,250
again it's you know largely true and

1294
01:01:58,890 --> 01:01:56,260
they were in the first two episodes of

1295
01:02:01,080 --> 01:01:58,900
season 2 there was a - for about Roswell

1296
01:02:03,180 --> 01:02:01,090
there were a lot of historically

1297
01:02:04,830 --> 01:02:03,190
accurate details from reports in there

1298
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:04,840
that were later into the narrative

1299
01:02:10,050 --> 01:02:07,810
because both the creator of the show

1300
01:02:13,290 --> 01:02:10,060
David O'Leary and the showrunner Sean

1301
01:02:14,550 --> 01:02:13,300
Jablonski aren't huge UFO bus and the

1302
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:14,560
show started off on a really good

1303
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:16,930
footing because Arturo and Terry in the

1304
01:02:20,910 --> 01:02:18,370
network executive at history for the

1305
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:20,920
first season is also a huge UFO buff and

1306
01:02:26,550 --> 01:02:24,310
they have a very respectful outlook

1307
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:26,560
towards UFOs and they wanted to portray

1308
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:29,530
it in a serious way but the dictates of

1309
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:31,690
cable television are that you need these

1310
01:02:37,230 --> 01:02:34,240
sort of dramatized elements to get

1311
01:02:39,540 --> 01:02:37,240
people to watch it so I view it as a

1312
01:02:42,110 --> 01:02:39,550
piece that has like a logical or an

1313
01:02:43,730 --> 01:02:42,120
accurate foundation and a fictional

1314
01:02:45,930 --> 01:02:43,740
overcoating

1315
01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:45,940
so you mentioned about Close Encounters

1316
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:49,150
how it some people think it's true well

1317
01:02:51,540 --> 01:02:50,050
I think you know

1318
01:02:54,660 --> 01:02:51,550
can look at these in the same light and

1319
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:54,670
by having some fictional elements it

1320
01:02:58,590 --> 01:02:56,530
does a really great service because you

1321
01:03:00,330 --> 01:02:58,600
can write books you know factual books

1322
01:03:02,670 --> 01:03:00,340
and documentaries about UFOs which are

1323
01:03:05,820 --> 01:03:02,680
quite good but they don't often or they

1324
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:05,830
don't always expand the tent but if you

1325
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:08,650
have a fictional piece of work that has

1326
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:11,770
some true aspects to it you can get more

1327
01:03:14,820 --> 01:03:13,210
people involved but you may have one

1328
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:14,830
person the family who likes UFO the

1329
01:03:17,610 --> 01:03:16,330
other people don't care and they see

1330
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:17,620
Project Blue Book or Close Encounters

1331
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:19,450
and I say wow that's really interesting

1332
01:03:22,860 --> 01:03:21,280
I'd like to learn more and now the

1333
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:22,870
family can have an enlarged and

1334
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:24,700
conversation about it I think that

1335
01:03:29,130 --> 01:03:27,010
happens in society at large it's usually

1336
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:29,140
works that that go into the fictional

1337
01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:32,290
world as well that really move the

1338
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:35,950
needle for acceptance in the public and

1339
01:03:41,540 --> 01:03:37,690
public circles in public discourse and

1340
01:03:43,740 --> 01:03:41,550
and you write about that because last

1341
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:43,750
about okay

1342
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:47,890
Cesar episode one last year I did the

1343
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:50,290
same thing that everybody else did the

1344
01:03:56,670 --> 01:03:53,410
next day which was we picked it apart

1345
01:03:59,130 --> 01:03:56,680
Tabby's just completely and then went

1346
01:04:02,460 --> 01:03:59,140
into the next one and and I did the same

1347
01:04:04,650 --> 01:04:02,470
thing and that I at that point I had to

1348
01:04:09,300 --> 01:04:04,660
just stop because I realized what was

1349
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:09,310
going on and there are those in the UFO

1350
01:04:17,220 --> 01:04:12,130
community me being one where we like to

1351
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:17,230
flaunt our knowledge there are a lot of

1352
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:19,090
people right right and there's a lot of

1353
01:04:26,460 --> 01:04:22,090
people out there that that know an awful

1354
01:04:30,030 --> 01:04:26,470
lot about everything and I ended up

1355
01:04:35,370 --> 01:04:30,040
going very public on this and stating

1356
01:04:38,430 --> 01:04:35,380
that look I enjoy the show I do I don't

1357
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:38,440
look at the show as historical record

1358
01:04:45,630 --> 01:04:42,010
it's just entertainment and if it is

1359
01:04:50,340 --> 01:04:45,640
going to expand the UFO question out

1360
01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:50,350
there further then we win wasting time

1361
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:53,200
about picking these the the facts apart

1362
01:05:00,090 --> 01:04:57,090
about each episode is is is worthless

1363
01:05:02,980 --> 01:05:00,100
but and there's always a but there's a

1364
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:02,990
but pause and here's the button

1365
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:06,530
that that's now that's today but there

1366
01:05:14,050 --> 01:05:10,160
will be a few years from now a few years

1367
01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:14,060
into the future where the show will get

1368
01:05:21,490 --> 01:05:19,640
washed into fact where I am going to

1369
01:05:23,830 --> 01:05:21,500
have to answer a question where

1370
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:23,840
somebody's going to come up and say yeah

1371
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:27,440
but you know and they're gonna sit

1372
01:05:32,859 --> 01:05:30,170
because it has now you know you know

1373
01:05:37,390 --> 01:05:32,869
it's like the game telephone right and

1374
01:05:40,359 --> 01:05:37,400
now these these fictionalized parts of

1375
01:05:43,180 --> 01:05:40,369
the show are going to be brought into

1376
01:05:44,890 --> 01:05:43,190
the cultures fact and we are gonna have

1377
01:05:47,859 --> 01:05:44,900
to go back and say well you know what

1378
01:05:49,090 --> 01:05:47,869
now actually they made it up you know

1379
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:49,100
what I mean and that's I think that's

1380
01:05:54,820 --> 01:05:52,250
the danger zone yeah I'll take that I

1381
01:05:57,460 --> 01:05:54,830
mean if elements of the show enter the

1382
01:05:59,740 --> 01:05:57,470
permanent you know firmament of the

1383
01:06:02,950 --> 01:05:59,750
public zeitgeist hey that's a problem

1384
01:06:04,510 --> 01:06:02,960
I'm worth having that's fine you know I

1385
01:06:07,510 --> 01:06:04,520
think you know I think the show does a

1386
01:06:10,090 --> 01:06:07,520
great service to presenting UFOs in a

1387
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:10,100
respectful and open-minded way and you

1388
01:06:14,140 --> 01:06:11,930
know not all the shows end with oh my

1389
01:06:15,790 --> 01:06:14,150
god that's a no Verner von braun

1390
01:06:18,310 --> 01:06:15,800
transporting ship some of them are

1391
01:06:19,690 --> 01:06:18,320
explained away and they use explanations

1392
01:06:21,730 --> 01:06:19,700
that my father came up with it at some

1393
01:06:25,180 --> 01:06:21,740
times so I think you know the main thing

1394
01:06:28,180 --> 01:06:25,190
is the show is a very good open-minded

1395
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:28,190
look at a super enigmatic phenomena and

1396
01:06:34,300 --> 01:06:32,210
a man and a woman who you know took it

1397
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:34,310
on and tried to advance science in it as

1398
01:06:40,510 --> 01:06:37,010
far as they go now there is one problem

1399
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:40,520
with the show that I have and it's a big

1400
01:06:50,109 --> 01:06:44,570
one your dad's pipe what's going on yeah

1401
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:50,119
so that okay so that is what I get from

1402
01:06:54,340 --> 01:06:52,160
our dear friends our mutual dear friend

1403
01:06:58,420 --> 01:06:54,350
Paula Harris and so we can't stand to

1404
01:06:59,980 --> 01:06:58,430
watch my dad without a fight now so now

1405
01:07:01,480 --> 01:06:59,990
they all know about that yeah I did a

1406
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:01,490
lot of research and I asked Sean

1407
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:03,440
Jablonski their showrunner about that

1408
01:07:09,370 --> 01:07:05,450
and he said well Paul the problem is in

1409
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:09,380
TV a pipe sort of evokes this feeling of

1410
01:07:14,170 --> 01:07:11,930
stagnation and we need a sort of a more

1411
01:07:15,970 --> 01:07:14,180
frenetic active feel to the show

1412
01:07:16,450 --> 01:07:15,980
there's also continuity issues with

1413
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:16,460
smoking

1414
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:19,250
things like that and for me you know I

1415
01:07:24,010 --> 01:07:21,770
can't count the number of times or hours

1416
01:07:26,170 --> 01:07:24,020
I saw my dad with a pipe but it doesn't

1417
01:07:29,230 --> 01:07:26,180
really subtract and there is I think in

1418
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:29,240
episode 10 they give him a pipe so you

1419
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:32,000
know it's calm down the fan base but it

1420
01:07:35,740 --> 01:07:33,410
doesn't really subtract from the

1421
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:35,750
essential core of my father and I'll

1422
01:07:39,099 --> 01:07:37,250
tell you one thing that happened you

1423
01:07:41,020 --> 01:07:39,109
know I think Aidan Gillen is a fantastic

1424
01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:41,030
actor he's a great guy no don't

1425
01:07:46,599 --> 01:07:43,609
and for the record it's not super creepy

1426
01:07:49,150 --> 01:07:46,609
at all to have the super villain from

1427
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:49,160
Game of Thrones play your TV dad at all

1428
01:07:56,620 --> 01:07:53,920
Jimmy so he's just a wonderful guy and

1429
01:07:59,380 --> 01:07:56,630
the first time of the three times I've

1430
01:08:01,660 --> 01:07:59,390
been on the set there was it was in

1431
01:08:03,130 --> 01:08:01,670
season 1 and Aiden was doing his own

1432
01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:03,140
stunt driving being chased by a

1433
01:08:07,359 --> 01:08:05,390
mysterious sedan and between takes you

1434
01:08:08,980 --> 01:08:07,369
would come over and talk with me and one

1435
01:08:11,650 --> 01:08:08,990
time when he was walking back to the car

1436
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:11,660
wearing that sort of the fedora and the

1437
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:15,050
trench coat I actually felt my father it

1438
01:08:19,180 --> 01:08:17,210
was it was really a riveting moment for

1439
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:19,190
me I wanted to ask you about that

1440
01:08:24,940 --> 01:08:23,120
directly knowing that you know both

1441
01:08:29,289 --> 01:08:24,950
Laura and Aidan you know playing your

1442
01:08:32,829 --> 01:08:29,299
parents how accurate is that did Aidan

1443
01:08:36,900 --> 01:08:32,839
go back in and and study your dad or as

1444
01:08:40,030 --> 01:08:36,910
as he made your dad his own character

1445
01:08:42,370 --> 01:08:40,040
yeah big both to their credit they both

1446
01:08:43,660 --> 01:08:42,380
studied them quite a lot and I had a lot

1447
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:43,670
of conversations with them my brother

1448
01:08:48,870 --> 01:08:46,730
Joel and I had a lot of emails Laura

1449
01:08:51,519 --> 01:08:48,880
talked with my sister Roxanne as well

1450
01:08:53,530 --> 01:08:51,529
and they really apply themselves as

1451
01:08:55,930 --> 01:08:53,540
they've done before to sort of

1452
01:08:57,610 --> 01:08:55,940
understanding that core of a true

1453
01:08:59,559 --> 01:08:57,620
character upon which they can layer

1454
01:09:01,900 --> 01:08:59,569
their own artistic interpretation I

1455
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:01,910
think they did fantastic jobs you know

1456
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:03,770
one of the interesting moments for me in

1457
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:07,489
season one was episode 10 where Laura is

1458
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:09,170
walking down the street wearing a brown

1459
01:09:13,420 --> 01:09:11,690
coat and sort of a turquoise brooch and

1460
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:13,430
I remember looking at this thing oh that

1461
01:09:18,550 --> 01:09:16,400
looks super familiar I completely forgot

1462
01:09:20,499 --> 01:09:18,560
I had given it to Laura a year and a

1463
01:09:23,530 --> 01:09:20,509
half before production it was my mom's

1464
01:09:28,059 --> 01:09:23,540
real bro okay now that's pretty cool

1465
01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:28,069
that's pretty cool yeah I gave him a tie

1466
01:09:30,340 --> 01:09:30,049
though he's worn in public appearances

1467
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:30,350
and

1468
01:09:33,970 --> 01:09:32,330
imaginable make its way into the show as

1469
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:33,980
well and you know it's interesting

1470
01:09:40,440 --> 01:09:36,770
because seeing that brooch sort of broke

1471
01:09:44,650 --> 01:09:40,450
down the the wall between the sort of

1472
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:44,660
surreal world of my TV family and my

1473
01:09:49,150 --> 01:09:47,090
real life you know sometimes I'll watch

1474
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:49,160
the show and I'll get you know lost in

1475
01:09:53,710 --> 01:09:51,170
the drama and I'll hear them say me me

1476
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:53,720
and Alan is Oh Jimmy that's my family

1477
01:09:58,990 --> 01:09:56,690
again holy God now there's the other

1478
01:10:04,030 --> 01:09:59,000
part about this and I think we're all

1479
01:10:09,850 --> 01:10:04,040
wondering about is Aiden being portrayed

1480
01:10:13,210 --> 01:10:09,860
as a James Bond excuse me a James Bond

1481
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:13,220
type character nearly in every episodes

1482
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:16,570
like would your dad be predisposed to

1483
01:10:22,030 --> 01:10:19,370
jump on a fighter aircraft and chase

1484
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:22,040
UFOs and crash it I mean was your dad

1485
01:10:30,310 --> 01:10:24,650
that that outgoing because he seems a

1486
01:10:32,110 --> 01:10:30,320
little bit more conservative I don't

1487
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:32,120
know anybody who's travel as much as my

1488
01:10:36,430 --> 01:10:33,890
father and one thing that's really

1489
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:36,440
interesting I'm sure you know about and

1490
01:10:42,070 --> 01:10:38,330
you may have met Calvin Parker from the

1491
01:10:43,270 --> 01:10:42,080
1973 Pascagoula case absolutely so

1492
01:10:46,420 --> 01:10:43,280
Calvin and I have become good friends

1493
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:46,430
and we did an interview at a conference

1494
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:48,800
last year and he told me something I had

1495
01:10:54,130 --> 01:10:51,410
never heard and I've known Calvin for 40

1496
01:10:56,070 --> 01:10:54,140
years mm-hmm that they he and Charlie

1497
01:10:58,900 --> 01:10:56,080
Higson got out of the police station

1498
01:11:00,820 --> 01:10:58,910
about 11 p.m. that Sunday night and

1499
01:11:02,290 --> 01:11:00,830
they're back at the at the shipyards the

1500
01:11:03,790 --> 01:11:02,300
next morning for work early in the

1501
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:03,800
morning which I thought was impressive

1502
01:11:10,050 --> 01:11:06,290
and its own life right and he told me my

1503
01:11:18,010 --> 01:11:10,060
father was waiting in the HR office at

1504
01:11:21,190 --> 01:11:18,020
6:47 the next morning wait a minute he

1505
01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:21,200
didn't tell me about this yeah this is

1506
01:11:29,470 --> 01:11:24,950
this is an interesting twist did your

1507
01:11:31,150 --> 01:11:29,480
father tell you about this no no there's

1508
01:11:33,970 --> 01:11:31,160
a lot of things I learned about you know

1509
01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:33,980
my father and my mother were from a

1510
01:11:37,900 --> 01:11:36,260
generation where they didn't often start

1511
01:11:40,330 --> 01:11:37,910
conversations about themselves no matter

1512
01:11:41,980 --> 01:11:40,340
what it was about so I was you know I

1513
01:11:43,690 --> 01:11:41,990
saw the questions we'd have to pry

1514
01:11:46,060 --> 01:11:43,700
things out of them or

1515
01:11:47,020 --> 01:11:46,070
have other people tell me about them so

1516
01:11:49,030 --> 01:11:47,030
I didn't know that

1517
01:11:50,890 --> 01:11:49,040
and I still don't know how it happened I

1518
01:11:53,620 --> 01:11:50,900
mean he must you know we lived in

1519
01:11:55,990 --> 01:11:53,630
Chicago this is in the Gulf Coast he

1520
01:11:57,850 --> 01:11:56,000
must have been somewhere around there on

1521
01:12:00,190 --> 01:11:57,860
other business already but still how

1522
01:12:02,290 --> 01:12:00,200
does the word get to him between 11:00

1523
01:12:04,660 --> 01:12:02,300
p.m. on a Sunday and that really that

1524
01:12:05,140 --> 01:12:04,670
one in the morning I don't know how that

1525
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:05,150
happened

1526
01:12:10,750 --> 01:12:08,450
well it's also it it pops up often in

1527
01:12:15,310 --> 01:12:10,760
the show and I wanted to ask you about

1528
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:15,320
this specifically where you guys are you

1529
01:12:19,990 --> 01:12:17,090
know the family is there your mom is

1530
01:12:21,730 --> 01:12:20,000
there the phone call comes in you know

1531
01:12:24,310 --> 01:12:21,740
your dad just gets home from an

1532
01:12:29,290 --> 01:12:24,320
investigation he walks down the phone

1533
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:29,300
rings okay honey I did is that the way

1534
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:32,210
it went down yeah my father was on the

1535
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,560
road besides you know before UFOs

1536
01:12:40,570 --> 01:12:38,480
you know he put observatories all around

1537
01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:40,580
the world as part of operation moon

1538
01:12:45,700 --> 01:12:44,000
watch to track artificial satellites as

1539
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:45,710
they called him in the day right so he

1540
01:12:49,810 --> 01:12:47,930
sent me he said citizen teams around the

1541
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:49,820
world and they were the first ones to

1542
01:12:54,610 --> 01:12:52,850
spot and tracks but net so he had a

1543
01:12:56,290 --> 01:12:54,620
track record of already traveling too

1544
01:12:58,120 --> 01:12:56,300
you know we were going to Clips cruises

1545
01:13:01,780 --> 01:12:58,130
we want my family my younger brother

1546
01:13:04,060 --> 01:13:01,790
Ross and my mom and I in 1973 went on an

1547
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:04,070
eclipse cruise to Africa for two weeks

1548
01:13:08,260 --> 01:13:06,650
and our family and Neil Armstrong's

1549
01:13:11,530 --> 01:13:08,270
family sat together for the full two

1550
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:11,540
weeks and he has a time the most famous

1551
01:13:19,090 --> 01:13:13,850
guy in the world I am an astronomers kid

1552
01:13:23,020 --> 01:13:19,100
I was in heaven right right and I wanted

1553
01:13:28,990 --> 01:13:23,030
to you know speaking specifically about

1554
01:13:33,690 --> 01:13:29,000
these cases when it is portrayed in the

1555
01:13:38,770 --> 01:13:33,700
series I just have to ask this question

1556
01:13:40,330 --> 01:13:38,780
the men in black aspect of it comes and

1557
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:40,340
goes a lot in the film

1558
01:13:46,450 --> 01:13:43,040
historically the timing is a bit off and

1559
01:13:49,660 --> 01:13:46,460
we can we can ignore that but they

1560
01:13:52,810 --> 01:13:49,670
certainly made it a part of the series

1561
01:13:54,069 --> 01:13:52,820
did your dad ever discuss the men in

1562
01:13:59,579 --> 01:13:54,079
black or

1563
01:14:02,079 --> 01:13:59,589
or you know interference or or otherwise

1564
01:14:04,979 --> 01:14:02,089
yeah yeah you talked about men in black

1565
01:14:07,989 --> 01:14:04,989
and he talked about sort of efforts

1566
01:14:10,569 --> 01:14:07,999
overall to just sort of you know I think

1567
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:10,579
he also mentioned is you know I got old

1568
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:12,800
saw about the devil that the devil wants

1569
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:14,570
to make him was self look as ridiculous

1570
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:16,249
as possible so people don't believe in

1571
01:14:19,989 --> 01:14:18,050
us right and I think he felt that's and

1572
01:14:22,839 --> 01:14:19,999
there are it's now publicly documented

1573
01:14:26,619 --> 01:14:22,849
that the government did engage in public

1574
01:14:28,389 --> 01:14:26,629
disinformation credits to in efforts to

1575
01:14:30,489 --> 01:14:28,399
make the field of ufology look

1576
01:14:32,589 --> 01:14:30,499
ridiculous as you know it's not to

1577
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:32,599
warrant serious attention or concern and

1578
01:14:36,029 --> 01:14:34,010
that's actually part of the air force's

1579
01:14:38,879 --> 01:14:36,039
job right mean their job is to project

1580
01:14:42,399 --> 01:14:38,889
offensive power through the air to

1581
01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:42,409
prevent the projection of power from the

1582
01:14:46,389 --> 01:14:44,719
foes onto us but also to create the

1583
01:14:48,759 --> 01:14:46,399
perception amongst the populace that

1584
01:14:50,679 --> 01:14:48,769
they are protecting us now if they come

1585
01:14:52,509 --> 01:14:50,689
out and say hey we have no idea what's

1586
01:14:54,069 --> 01:14:52,519
going on then we're going to feel

1587
01:14:56,529 --> 01:14:54,079
insecure and the Air Force would never

1588
01:14:59,349 --> 01:14:56,539
do that which makes the recent Navy

1589
01:15:01,329 --> 01:14:59,359
disclosures all the more compelling

1590
01:15:03,699 --> 01:15:01,339
because they've gone public and said oh

1591
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:03,709
we've seen hundreds of UFOs we have no

1592
01:15:10,149 --> 01:15:06,050
idea what's happening and we could use a

1593
01:15:12,129 --> 01:15:10,159
little help reporting them and also

1594
01:15:16,270 --> 01:15:12,139
repeated in the you know I don't know

1595
01:15:20,529 --> 01:15:16,280
how fictional this is but your father in

1596
01:15:22,119 --> 01:15:20,539
the series Adan is having conversations

1597
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:22,129
with the men in black it's not that he

1598
01:15:27,819 --> 01:15:24,010
was being observed from down the street

1599
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:27,829
but there's evidence exchanging hands

1600
01:15:33,810 --> 01:15:30,260
conversation is is happening

1601
01:15:37,989 --> 01:15:33,820
did your father ever talk about that

1602
01:15:39,609 --> 01:15:37,999
yeah he did to him it wasn't the most

1603
01:15:40,899 --> 01:15:39,619
interesting aspect you know if you

1604
01:15:43,869 --> 01:15:40,909
remember he's an astronomer

1605
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:43,879
so his natural deep art default is the

1606
01:15:50,169 --> 01:15:48,169
Stars so what was happening with the air

1607
01:15:52,569 --> 01:15:50,179
force and all that yeah that impacted

1608
01:15:55,899 --> 01:15:52,579
him but he was much more interested in

1609
01:15:57,849 --> 01:15:55,909
what may have happened and getting to

1610
01:16:01,659 --> 01:15:57,859
the witnesses themselves and being

1611
01:16:03,250 --> 01:16:01,669
obscured or tampered by these other

1612
01:16:05,169 --> 01:16:03,260
government agencies and you know he

1613
01:16:06,819 --> 01:16:05,179
thought was interesting because the most

1614
01:16:07,959 --> 01:16:06,829
likely explanation for them was some

1615
01:16:09,250 --> 01:16:07,969
other American agents

1616
01:16:11,410 --> 01:16:09,260
now you could say the Russians you could

1617
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:11,420
say they're aliens themselves sure but

1618
01:16:15,610 --> 01:16:13,489
you know the Occam's razor explanation

1619
01:16:17,709 --> 01:16:15,620
they're just another component of the US

1620
01:16:20,170 --> 01:16:17,719
government because we have a tendency to

1621
01:16:23,290 --> 01:16:20,180
think of the government is acting as one

1622
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:23,300
monolithic rational organization all in

1623
01:16:27,220 --> 01:16:25,850
lockstep but I think it's you know once

1624
01:16:29,010 --> 01:16:27,230
you learn about government you realize

1625
01:16:31,689 --> 01:16:29,020
that there are fiefdom x' and

1626
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:31,699
territorial wars and different agencies

1627
01:16:36,130 --> 01:16:34,010
fighting actively across purposes

1628
01:16:39,370 --> 01:16:36,140
against each other so you could have

1629
01:16:41,050 --> 01:16:39,380
project Bluebook ostensibly going out to

1630
01:16:44,650 --> 01:16:41,060
find the truth but really trying to tamp

1631
01:16:46,300 --> 01:16:44,660
down hysteria as of 1953 you had the 46

1632
01:16:48,700 --> 01:16:46,310
Oh second air Intelligence Service

1633
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:48,710
squadron being sort like the crash

1634
01:16:52,570 --> 01:16:50,570
recovery team that has to get anywhere

1635
01:16:54,550 --> 01:16:52,580
in the continental US within six hours

1636
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:54,560
and they all speak Russian and their

1637
01:16:58,450 --> 01:16:56,570
paratroopers and they're the ones that

1638
01:17:00,930 --> 01:16:58,460
would go out and try to reverse engineer

1639
01:17:03,970 --> 01:17:00,940
a propulsion system for example now

1640
01:17:05,770 --> 01:17:03,980
people think that the men in black may

1641
01:17:07,990 --> 01:17:05,780
have been part of the air Intelligence

1642
01:17:09,729 --> 01:17:08,000
Service squadron because they're like

1643
01:17:11,890 --> 01:17:09,739
the Rapid Response Team and they want to

1644
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:11,900
not only collect whatever materials

1645
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:14,930
there are but you know contained the

1646
01:17:20,350 --> 01:17:17,120
dissemination of the spread of the

1647
01:17:24,030 --> 01:17:20,360
information and I think I'm

1648
01:17:26,890 --> 01:17:24,040
understanding that your father didn't

1649
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:26,900
did he call him men in black I mean how

1650
01:17:33,580 --> 01:17:29,330
did he identify them or did he just say

1651
01:17:35,860 --> 01:17:33,590
agents because it sounds to me that he

1652
01:17:36,700 --> 01:17:35,870
didn't necessarily know if they were

1653
01:17:38,890 --> 01:17:36,710
Friend or Foe

1654
01:17:41,430 --> 01:17:38,900
if they were Russian if they were a

1655
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:41,440
tease if they were from the Air Force

1656
01:17:48,820 --> 01:17:43,730
yeah he called it he called them men in

1657
01:17:50,950 --> 01:17:48,830
black directly and oh yeah any of you

1658
01:17:55,530 --> 01:17:50,960
then as tampering they they weren't a

1659
01:17:59,229 --> 01:17:55,540
helpful presence for him by no means he

1660
01:18:01,270 --> 01:17:59,239
identified them as men in black yeah

1661
01:18:06,490 --> 01:18:01,280
yeah and you can look in the book the

1662
01:18:08,229 --> 01:18:06,500
Hynek UFO report and I think also edge

1663
01:18:10,150 --> 01:18:08,239
of reality that he co-wrote with John

1664
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:10,160
collee and they used that exact term yes

1665
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:13,130
right well but that was later

1666
01:18:18,750 --> 01:18:15,650
you know I'm thinking was he using the

1667
01:18:21,260 --> 01:18:18,760
term men in black in the 60s around you

1668
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:21,270
yeah you know that I don't

1669
01:18:27,650 --> 01:18:25,170
no I know in in in serving arrest

1670
01:18:28,490 --> 01:18:27,660
retrospect he certainly was it's just

1671
01:18:31,190 --> 01:18:28,500
crazy

1672
01:18:36,890 --> 01:18:31,200
what what a great childhood I thought

1673
01:18:39,740 --> 01:18:36,900
you know this is the thing my my parents

1674
01:18:44,150 --> 01:18:39,750
my childhood very opened the the whole

1675
01:18:47,300 --> 01:18:44,160
UFO erich von daniken edgar cayce Ouija

1676
01:18:49,550 --> 01:18:47,310
board world that I grew up suggested to

1677
01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:49,560
me that the world wasn't as it seems and

1678
01:18:56,690 --> 01:18:53,760
when I speak about this I find that

1679
01:18:59,180 --> 01:18:56,700
everybody else around me has the same

1680
01:19:02,480 --> 01:18:59,190
story right we all do we had parents

1681
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:02,490
that allowed us freedom of thought you

1682
01:19:08,150 --> 01:19:05,250
certainly had that in spades right where

1683
01:19:10,910 --> 01:19:08,160
you had freedom of thought were you were

1684
01:19:13,820 --> 01:19:10,920
you shown very early on that the world

1685
01:19:17,930 --> 01:19:13,830
just wasn't as it seems and that you may

1686
01:19:20,180 --> 01:19:17,940
be lied to about this and so let's go

1687
01:19:24,470 --> 01:19:20,190
this let's go down the other fork in the

1688
01:19:26,810 --> 01:19:24,480
road is that the way it was for you yeah

1689
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:26,820
you know I wasn't brought up in a

1690
01:19:31,820 --> 01:19:28,290
religious household I was brought up in

1691
01:19:33,980 --> 01:19:31,830
a scientific academic household and it

1692
01:19:35,390 --> 01:19:33,990
wasn't you know how much money you made

1693
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:35,400
or what kind of clothes you had or what

1694
01:19:40,670 --> 01:19:38,850
kind of car you had it was the ideas you

1695
01:19:43,250 --> 01:19:40,680
brought to the table literally and

1696
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:43,260
figuratively and the way you could

1697
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:44,400
discuss them there was a most

1698
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:46,890
interesting to our to my parents and we

1699
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:48,330
had all the professor's other

1700
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:50,370
astronomers not only people that were

1701
01:19:54,140 --> 01:19:52,650
interested in UFOs over all the time to

1702
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:54,150
talk about all kinds of interesting

1703
01:19:59,420 --> 01:19:56,850
phenomena and my dad and mom both had

1704
01:20:01,340 --> 01:19:59,430
voracious intellectual appetites and

1705
01:20:03,650 --> 01:20:01,350
wanted to learn about fields that they

1706
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:03,660
didn't know but also wanted to talk in

1707
01:20:08,180 --> 01:20:05,730
detail with people in their own fields

1708
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:08,190
and learn more and share experiences so

1709
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,530
it was a fantastically intellectually

1710
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:12,480
stimulating environment absolutely now

1711
01:20:15,710 --> 01:20:13,890
and you know what's really interesting

1712
01:20:22,220 --> 01:20:15,720
we got to take a break right here but

1713
01:20:24,130 --> 01:20:22,230
what if your father was had the

1714
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:24,140
knowledge that we have today of

1715
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:26,370
exoplanets and the amount of stars in

1716
01:20:30,260 --> 01:20:28,080
the Milky Way and the amount of planets

1717
01:20:32,090 --> 01:20:30,270
that are here and fast radio bursts in

1718
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:32,100
these contacts you know that are

1719
01:20:36,050 --> 01:20:33,450
happening today

1720
01:20:39,470 --> 01:20:36,060
what what a different place we would be

1721
01:20:43,370 --> 01:20:39,480
and certainly with him too right yeah

1722
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:43,380
you know he would love you know iPhones

1723
01:20:48,980 --> 01:20:46,110
and computers he was a huge technology

1724
01:20:52,190 --> 01:20:48,990
nerd all was ahead of his time

1725
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:52,200
and he would just be fascinated by you

1726
01:20:57,680 --> 01:20:55,170
know how much science has advanced but

1727
01:20:59,360 --> 01:20:57,690
also with the aspects of disclosure that

1728
01:21:00,860 --> 01:20:59,370
we're seeing like the recent Navy stuff

1729
01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:00,870
that I mentioned you know he would be

1730
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:02,820
utterly fascinating that the Navy is

1731
01:21:08,690 --> 01:21:06,090
publicly saying we've seen UFOs and we

1732
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:08,700
need help I find that as or more

1733
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:11,520
compelling than any individual case is

1734
01:21:16,910 --> 01:21:14,400
the behavior of individuals like when

1735
01:21:19,220 --> 01:21:16,920
the air force reported hey we found a

1736
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:19,230
flying saucer at Roswell and then the

1737
01:21:23,570 --> 01:21:20,400
next day of course they walk they

1738
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:23,580
famously walk it back but that day they

1739
01:21:27,230 --> 01:21:25,170
reported it and you have to think that

1740
01:21:29,420 --> 01:21:27,240
the base commander could tell the

1741
01:21:31,130 --> 01:21:29,430
difference between balsa wood tin foil

1742
01:21:34,220 --> 01:21:31,140
and rubber from a weather balloon and

1743
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:34,230
some shape changing alien alloy that

1744
01:21:37,970 --> 01:21:35,850
nobody has ever seen before you know

1745
01:21:40,010 --> 01:21:37,980
that kind of thing that super compelling

1746
01:21:42,650 --> 01:21:40,020
to me yeah you would think that you know

1747
01:21:46,820 --> 01:21:42,660
at the most secret top-secret location

1748
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:46,830
on planet earth which was Roswell New

1749
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:48,810
Mexico let's take our break right here

1750
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:51,570
Paul our guest tonight Paul hi Nick what

1751
01:21:55,820 --> 01:21:53,280
a great conversation and Paul I'm gonna

1752
01:21:57,980 --> 01:21:55,830
warm you up for this after the break

1753
01:22:01,000 --> 01:21:57,990
here's the question was there were a

1754
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:01,010
real general Harding and was he a jerk

1755
01:22:05,780 --> 01:22:04,290
according to Jay Allen Hynek will get

1756
01:22:09,310 --> 01:22:05,790
the answer to that question after this

1757
01:22:21,729 --> 01:22:18,479
[Music]

1758
01:22:25,030 --> 01:22:21,739
welcome back to fade to black if you've

1759
01:22:27,609 --> 01:22:25,040
ever missed a live show there's a live

1760
01:22:29,790 --> 01:22:27,619
radio broadcast but if you've ever miss

1761
01:22:32,229 --> 01:22:29,800
live show just subscribe to our podcast

1762
01:22:34,090 --> 01:22:32,239
it's just two dollars per month go to

1763
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:34,100
Jimmy Torrance radio.com click on that

1764
01:22:39,609 --> 01:22:37,760
podcast banner we have almost 1200 past

1765
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:39,619
episodes right there in the archives for

1766
01:22:43,470 --> 01:22:41,449
you for just two dollars per month

1767
01:22:46,300 --> 01:22:43,480
our guest tonight Paul Hynek and Paul

1768
01:22:51,129 --> 01:22:46,310
the question right before the break and

1769
01:22:54,370 --> 01:22:51,139
neal mcdonough plays place a pretty good

1770
01:22:57,070 --> 01:22:54,380
jerk but I think that Neil who plays

1771
01:22:59,649 --> 01:22:57,080
General James Harding in the series but

1772
01:23:02,200 --> 01:22:59,659
is also compassionate about the subject

1773
01:23:05,830 --> 01:23:02,210
- he stuck he's torn between two worlds

1774
01:23:10,030 --> 01:23:05,840
but was there a guy like that in your

1775
01:23:12,070 --> 01:23:10,040
father's life well yeah so Neal

1776
01:23:14,020 --> 01:23:12,080
McDonough plays general Harding who's

1777
01:23:17,950 --> 01:23:14,030
actually based on general Nathan twining

1778
01:23:19,810 --> 01:23:17,960
and the fantastic michael harney plays

1779
01:23:21,550 --> 01:23:19,820
general Valentine who was based on

1780
01:23:23,229 --> 01:23:21,560
general Vandenberg but there were

1781
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:23,239
clearance issues so just between us

1782
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:25,250
girls Jimmy that's who they're supposed

1783
01:23:31,300 --> 01:23:28,639
to be and the word my father met a lot

1784
01:23:34,149 --> 01:23:31,310
of generals who had all sorts of

1785
01:23:35,830 --> 01:23:34,159
different attitudes about UFOs so and

1786
01:23:40,020 --> 01:23:35,840
you know what's what's interesting is

1787
01:23:45,580 --> 01:23:40,030
that they play two gentlemen who may

1788
01:23:47,020 --> 01:23:45,590
decide to kill my TV dad and I talked

1789
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:47,030
with michael harney quite a bit about

1790
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:49,489
this and how you know he portrays what

1791
01:23:53,229 --> 01:23:51,770
someone might say as a bad guy you know

1792
01:23:55,570 --> 01:23:53,239
the bad guy he at least being in

1793
01:23:58,750 --> 01:23:55,580
opposition to the protagonist in the

1794
01:24:01,050 --> 01:23:58,760
show and you know one of things we

1795
01:24:03,970 --> 01:24:01,060
talked about was that in his position

1796
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:03,980
you have this perhaps rogue professor

1797
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:06,170
going off the reservation who could sort

1798
01:24:10,899 --> 01:24:07,850
of tear at the fabric of national

1799
01:24:12,609 --> 01:24:10,909
security and in this kind of every

1800
01:24:15,790 --> 01:24:12,619
president wartime footing in the Cold

1801
01:24:18,100 --> 01:24:15,800
War if you're a general who feels that

1802
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:18,110
if these secrets get out it's going to

1803
01:24:24,729 --> 01:24:21,650
cause pandemonium and chaos chaos at

1804
01:24:26,229 --> 01:24:24,739
large then maybe you'd do what you need

1805
01:24:29,020 --> 01:24:26,239
to do when you sleep just fine with your

1806
01:24:30,970 --> 01:24:29,030
kids that night so you know they

1807
01:24:31,870 --> 01:24:30,980
approached it from the point of view

1808
01:24:33,790 --> 01:24:31,880
that we have to

1809
01:24:35,230 --> 01:24:33,800
keep a lid on this because if it gets

1810
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:35,240
out who knows what's gonna happen so

1811
01:24:40,570 --> 01:24:36,370
they do what they do

1812
01:24:43,810 --> 01:24:40,580
and what about a you know captain Quint

1813
01:24:45,370 --> 01:24:43,820
you know Michael malarkey was there was

1814
01:24:47,530 --> 01:24:45,380
there somebody that was at your house

1815
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:47,540
hanging out from the airforce that was

1816
01:24:51,340 --> 01:24:49,850
your dad's partner having these private

1817
01:24:56,020 --> 01:24:51,350
conversations and were you ever

1818
01:24:57,700 --> 01:24:56,030
listening in yeah and I want to say you

1819
01:25:01,420 --> 01:24:57,710
know Michael Markey is also a fantastic

1820
01:25:03,700 --> 01:25:01,430
actor and fun fact about old Michael he

1821
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:03,710
grew up 10 minutes from wright-patterson

1822
01:25:11,130 --> 01:25:07,010
Air Force Base in real life that's

1823
01:25:15,370 --> 01:25:13,870
he's an amalgamation of various Air

1824
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:15,380
Force directors of Project Blue Book

1825
01:25:20,710 --> 01:25:18,250
leaning most heavily on Edward rappelled

1826
01:25:23,980 --> 01:25:20,720
but there were at least five different

1827
01:25:26,020 --> 01:25:23,990
ones and so yes my father had

1828
01:25:29,290 --> 01:25:26,030
relationships with them they would come

1829
01:25:31,150 --> 01:25:29,300
to the house and met the family and you

1830
01:25:33,820 --> 01:25:31,160
know it was very interesting you know

1831
01:25:37,480 --> 01:25:33,830
Lieutenant Colonel Robert friend is the

1832
01:25:38,860 --> 01:25:37,490
one that I met and Arturo and terian and

1833
01:25:40,690 --> 01:25:38,870
David O'Leary and I were there on his

1834
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:40,700
99th birthday party he's the last

1835
01:25:44,980 --> 01:25:42,650
surviving Air Force director of Project

1836
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,990
Blue Book he was also an American Hero

1837
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:46,880
he worked on the space shuttle and I

1838
01:25:53,140 --> 01:25:49,760
think he had over 150 combat missions in

1839
01:25:56,140 --> 01:25:53,150
World War 2 in Vietnam just an amazing

1840
01:25:58,660 --> 01:25:56,150
guy and I was there on his 99th birthday

1841
01:25:59,260 --> 01:25:58,670
party and I told him a joke about George

1842
01:26:02,800 --> 01:25:59,270
Burns

1843
01:26:04,870 --> 01:26:02,810
wanting to live to be a hundred and

1844
01:26:06,850 --> 01:26:04,880
someone once asked him and I told this

1845
01:26:09,100 --> 01:26:06,860
to Lieutenant Colonel friend on his 99th

1846
01:26:11,980 --> 01:26:09,110
birthday the joke was a woman asked him

1847
01:26:14,230 --> 01:26:11,990
but Mr Burns who really wants to live to

1848
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:14,240
be a hundred and George Burns now shakes

1849
01:26:22,930 --> 01:26:18,800
a cigar and says someone who's 99 there

1850
01:26:25,060 --> 01:26:22,940
was I want to move forward and talk

1851
01:26:27,100 --> 01:26:25,070
about today I'm looking at the clock and

1852
01:26:29,350 --> 01:26:27,110
I knew we'd run out of time yeah and

1853
01:26:31,390 --> 01:26:29,360
we're getting a word we're getting

1854
01:26:34,510 --> 01:26:31,400
dangerously close to that I want to go

1855
01:26:39,510 --> 01:26:34,520
back really quick and address the area

1856
01:26:42,670 --> 01:26:39,520
51 episode for a couple of reasons one

1857
01:26:44,819 --> 01:26:42,680
historically and factually there are

1858
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:44,829
some things here that really clash

1859
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:47,530
but they also suggest the secrecy and

1860
01:26:53,100 --> 01:26:50,040
what may be going on out at area 51

1861
01:26:55,919 --> 01:26:53,110
certainly the the door and the side of

1862
01:26:58,379 --> 01:26:55,929
the mountain and and yeah your father

1863
01:27:01,979 --> 01:26:58,389
witnessing that but there's another part

1864
01:27:04,229 --> 01:27:01,989
to this that I think is significant at

1865
01:27:06,839 --> 01:27:04,239
least to me which is when they walked

1866
01:27:08,910 --> 01:27:06,849
into the hangar and they see all of

1867
01:27:12,750 --> 01:27:08,920
these different types of aircraft and

1868
01:27:16,290 --> 01:27:12,760
your father and Quinn at that point say

1869
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:16,300
okay this answers that case that craft

1870
01:27:21,870 --> 01:27:18,400
over there answers that case and that

1871
01:27:25,109 --> 01:27:21,880
answers this case suggesting that it is

1872
01:27:29,069 --> 01:27:25,119
all terrestrial that this is you know

1873
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:29,079
secret Air Force experimental aircraft

1874
01:27:35,430 --> 01:27:32,170
that are answering your father's own

1875
01:27:36,990 --> 01:27:35,440
questions about the UFO question do you

1876
01:27:39,450 --> 01:27:37,000
think that that is pushing the envelope

1877
01:27:41,100 --> 01:27:39,460
a little bit and that that is not where

1878
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:41,110
your father was coming from I don't

1879
01:27:47,100 --> 01:27:44,290
think your dad ever visited area 51 but

1880
01:27:51,689 --> 01:27:47,110
this is suggesting a terrestrial answer

1881
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:51,699
to a bunch of your dad's cases yeah well

1882
01:27:54,839 --> 01:27:53,650
we apart from the easter dinners that I

1883
01:27:55,169 --> 01:27:54,849
mentioned we used to have there every

1884
01:27:59,640 --> 01:27:55,179
year

1885
01:28:03,359 --> 01:27:59,650
yeah flying everything up in a dramatic

1886
01:28:06,299 --> 01:28:03,369
bow because it's so like this you know

1887
01:28:10,109 --> 01:28:06,309
the show doesn't want to sort of go too

1888
01:28:12,629 --> 01:28:10,119
far into whoohoo land it wants to

1889
01:28:14,939 --> 01:28:12,639
present a really serious subject with

1890
01:28:17,209 --> 01:28:14,949
some of the more exotic aspects but the

1891
01:28:26,629 --> 01:28:17,219
fact that many of the cases do have

1892
01:28:34,589 --> 01:28:30,390
the flatwoods monster right or each one

1893
01:28:36,859 --> 01:28:34,599
of the you know it seems that not all of

1894
01:28:42,450 --> 01:28:36,869
the episodes but each one of them is

1895
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:42,460
suggesting a reasonable explanation to

1896
01:28:48,629 --> 01:28:46,570
these was this your father's point of

1897
01:28:51,209 --> 01:28:48,639
view like specifically the flatwoods

1898
01:28:53,669 --> 01:28:51,219
monster we're even I backed up and went

1899
01:28:56,690 --> 01:28:53,679
okay now there's they're really twisting

1900
01:29:04,950 --> 01:29:02,610
well you know the idea of the show

1901
01:29:07,170 --> 01:29:04,960
especially the first season which had

1902
01:29:09,780 --> 01:29:07,180
the construct of being based on a real

1903
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:09,790
report was to present a lot of the

1904
01:29:16,170 --> 01:29:11,050
aspects that were known about the case

1905
01:29:18,270 --> 01:29:16,180
and then to run with it a bit so they

1906
01:29:22,770 --> 01:29:18,280
don't always hew to exactly what my

1907
01:29:27,270 --> 01:29:22,780
father thought right right right in that

1908
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:27,280
for again for me and I'm not I don't

1909
01:29:33,090 --> 01:29:30,610
want to you know pound this into the

1910
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:33,100
ground but one of the one of the things

1911
01:29:39,270 --> 01:29:35,770
that your dad had his problem with blue

1912
01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:39,280
book is that he was forced into giving

1913
01:29:45,930 --> 01:29:42,490
explanations for these cases to calm you

1914
01:29:48,630 --> 01:29:45,940
know public fear and in some aspects

1915
01:29:53,550 --> 01:29:48,640
that's exactly what the series is doing

1916
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:53,560
to I mean one of the interesting is

1917
01:29:58,050 --> 01:29:55,090
about Project Blue Book and reality was

1918
01:30:01,620 --> 01:29:58,060
as the show portrays it was a an answer

1919
01:30:03,930 --> 01:30:01,630
factory it was not an investigation so

1920
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:03,940
even though they had this tremendous

1921
01:30:09,420 --> 01:30:06,010
impetus and tremendous pressure to

1922
01:30:11,370 --> 01:30:09,430
explain everything away of the 12,000

1923
01:30:15,450 --> 01:30:11,380
odd cases that they took unofficially

1924
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:15,460
they still could not assign explanations

1925
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:18,730
to over 5% of them which is a very

1926
01:30:24,300 --> 01:30:21,370
telling statistic it's a big sister--

1927
01:30:25,850 --> 01:30:24,310
statistic okay one last thing and then I

1928
01:30:31,770 --> 01:30:25,860
want to talk about today

1929
01:30:35,610 --> 01:30:31,780
sure swamp gas oh my god swamp gas you

1930
01:30:39,660 --> 01:30:35,620
know and yeah did your further right did

1931
01:30:43,980 --> 01:30:39,670
your father have any idea of the decades

1932
01:30:49,860 --> 01:30:43,990
of conversation that swamp gas would

1933
01:30:51,630 --> 01:30:49,870
create I don't think so and you know he

1934
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:51,640
was it was taken out of context he

1935
01:30:56,490 --> 01:30:53,890
didn't mean to say so for those who

1936
01:31:00,150 --> 01:30:56,500
don't know swamp gas was an explanation

1937
01:31:02,310 --> 01:31:00,160
that was given in part for sightings and

1938
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:02,320
around I think Hillsdale Michigan in

1939
01:31:09,060 --> 01:31:06,850
1966 by a lot of women in a sorority and

1940
01:31:10,740 --> 01:31:09,070
others on campus and

1941
01:31:12,540 --> 01:31:10,750
my father went there to investigate and

1942
01:31:15,569 --> 01:31:12,550
the air force was applying tremendous

1943
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:15,579
pressure and he said some of the aspects

1944
01:31:20,370 --> 01:31:17,170
of this could be explained by phenomenon

1945
01:31:23,189 --> 01:31:20,380
or swamp gas well the press isn't always

1946
01:31:25,379 --> 01:31:23,199
known for you know keeping all the

1947
01:31:28,050 --> 01:31:25,389
nuances of an explanation from an

1948
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:28,060
erudite college professor and so they

1949
01:31:32,490 --> 01:31:30,250
ran with swamp gas and the person that

1950
01:31:35,430 --> 01:31:32,500
seemed to anger the most was a then

1951
01:31:37,260 --> 01:31:35,440
congressman named Gerald Ford who got so

1952
01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:37,270
incensed that he wrote and you know

1953
01:31:41,069 --> 01:31:39,520
basically spurred the establishment of

1954
01:31:46,919 --> 01:31:41,079
the Condon committee which went on to

1955
01:31:51,450 --> 01:31:46,929
shut down Project Blue Book and the the

1956
01:31:54,419 --> 01:31:51,460
term okay I understand what swamp gas

1957
01:31:58,950 --> 01:31:54,429
means today to everybody but up to that

1958
01:32:01,859 --> 01:31:58,960
point in 1966 was it even a scientific

1959
01:32:06,060 --> 01:32:01,869
term it seemed that everybody had heard

1960
01:32:07,890 --> 01:32:06,070
swap casts for the first time where your

1961
01:32:09,990 --> 01:32:07,900
father in the way that it was portrayed

1962
01:32:12,270 --> 01:32:10,000
is that everybody knows about swamp gas

1963
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:12,280
well you know he had a way with coining

1964
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:14,170
phrases like close encounters and high

1965
01:32:17,609 --> 01:32:16,210
strangeness so perhaps swamp doubts was

1966
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:17,619
something he coined and sort of caught

1967
01:32:22,620 --> 01:32:20,130
on I don't know did he regret it

1968
01:32:24,540 --> 01:32:22,630
yeah it was not it was not sort of the

1969
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:24,550
high point of his UFO investigation

1970
01:32:33,419 --> 01:32:29,250
career yeah okay let's move on today

1971
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:33,429
yeah today here we are you and I you

1972
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:36,010
just brought it up right that who would

1973
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:38,530
have imagined that you would be on a

1974
01:32:44,250 --> 01:32:41,050
radio show like this in 2020 discussing

1975
01:32:45,330 --> 01:32:44,260
UFOs and your father but I'll tell you

1976
01:32:47,060 --> 01:32:45,340
who would not have imagined that my

1977
01:32:52,050 --> 01:32:47,070
father would not have imagined that

1978
01:32:54,030 --> 01:32:52,060
that's right and and would he would he

1979
01:32:56,609 --> 01:32:54,040
be happy right now with with the

1980
01:33:00,530 --> 01:32:56,619
progress that appears to be happening

1981
01:33:04,740 --> 01:33:00,540
where we are moving this a bit forward

1982
01:33:05,939 --> 01:33:04,750
yeah I think you know my father viewed

1983
01:33:08,879 --> 01:33:05,949
himself as a scientist but also

1984
01:33:10,620 --> 01:33:08,889
popularizer of science he wrote maybe

1985
01:33:13,229 --> 01:33:10,630
hundreds maybe thousands of articles for

1986
01:33:14,729 --> 01:33:13,239
newspapers and books about astronomy in

1987
01:33:17,339 --> 01:33:14,739
general and really wanted people to

1988
01:33:20,339 --> 01:33:17,349
understand not the importance but the

1989
01:33:22,859 --> 01:33:20,349
majesty and the and the romance of

1990
01:33:25,109 --> 01:33:22,869
Science and Technology so

1991
01:33:27,209 --> 01:33:25,119
you know UFOs was something he thought

1992
01:33:30,179 --> 01:33:27,219
was important for people to give a fair

1993
01:33:32,189 --> 01:33:30,189
shake and I think I've seen a change in

1994
01:33:35,580 --> 01:33:32,199
the culture that now that I think more

1995
01:33:38,399 --> 01:33:35,590
people feel comfortable talking openly

1996
01:33:41,009 --> 01:33:38,409
about their views about UFO you know

1997
01:33:43,139 --> 01:33:41,019
going back decades there's a large

1998
01:33:45,540 --> 01:33:43,149
amount of the population often the

1999
01:33:47,250 --> 01:33:45,550
majority that believe in UFOs but now

2000
01:33:49,369 --> 01:33:47,260
much many more people feel comfortable

2001
01:33:52,109 --> 01:33:49,379
about that my father would feel I

2002
01:33:55,830 --> 01:33:52,119
strongly I believe that that is a really

2003
01:33:58,949 --> 01:33:55,840
positive sign now in terms of like from

2004
01:33:59,969 --> 01:33:58,959
the government aspect and disclosure you

2005
01:34:02,069 --> 01:33:59,979
know I was talking to my good friend

2006
01:34:03,899 --> 01:34:02,079
Jenn Horizonte day the executive

2007
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:03,909
director of MUFON the largest UFO

2008
01:34:08,189 --> 01:34:06,489
research group and you know he has an

2009
01:34:12,750 --> 01:34:08,199
interesting way to look at it where he

2010
01:34:15,389 --> 01:34:12,760
feels that disclosure is more a progress

2011
01:34:17,219 --> 01:34:15,399
or process and has already happened

2012
01:34:20,159 --> 01:34:17,229
especially starting with the New York

2013
01:34:22,409 --> 01:34:20,169
Times revelation of the Navy saying that

2014
01:34:24,119 --> 01:34:22,419
hey we see all these encounters and you

2015
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:24,129
know the Nimitz and and all these

2016
01:34:27,989 --> 01:34:25,570
fantastic sightings have all this

2017
01:34:29,429 --> 01:34:27,999
evidence so that's a for me that's a

2018
01:34:31,169 --> 01:34:29,439
very interesting component my father

2019
01:34:33,209 --> 01:34:31,179
would have really latched on to this

2020
01:34:35,850 --> 01:34:33,219
notion that there maybe has already been

2021
01:34:37,979 --> 01:34:35,860
a disclosure and then as Jan says we're

2022
01:34:39,810 --> 01:34:37,989
waiting for confirmation from the

2023
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:39,820
government of what has already been

2024
01:34:46,169 --> 01:34:43,570
disclosed and then to me the third layer

2025
01:34:49,199 --> 01:34:46,179
to say that the third kind encounter

2026
01:34:51,899 --> 01:34:49,209
here would be acceptance by the public

2027
01:34:55,139 --> 01:34:51,909
because we live in a very fractured

2028
01:34:58,189 --> 01:34:55,149
world now with fake news so even if you

2029
01:35:00,869 --> 01:34:58,199
had that quintessential archetypal

2030
01:35:04,139 --> 01:35:00,879
landing of a flying saucer on the on the

2031
01:35:05,909 --> 01:35:04,149
lawn of the White House you know let's

2032
01:35:08,850 --> 01:35:05,919
say you have identical twins you know

2033
01:35:10,979 --> 01:35:08,860
Bianca and Amy and they both see this

2034
01:35:12,929 --> 01:35:10,989
they may one of them may believe it and

2035
01:35:15,299 --> 01:35:12,939
one of them may not because we're so

2036
01:35:18,209 --> 01:35:15,309
fractured in a society but I think one

2037
01:35:20,549 --> 01:35:18,219
of the most you know challenging aspects

2038
01:35:22,319 --> 01:35:20,559
of a government that may have these

2039
01:35:24,060 --> 01:35:22,329
secrets to disclose which they're

2040
01:35:26,819 --> 01:35:24,070
already starting to dribble out let's

2041
01:35:30,389 --> 01:35:26,829
say in some preordained editorial

2042
01:35:33,029 --> 01:35:30,399
schedule is will people actually believe

2043
01:35:35,219 --> 01:35:33,039
anything that we said which is a new

2044
01:35:36,780 --> 01:35:35,229
phenomena that didn't exist 30 40 years

2045
01:35:40,230 --> 01:35:36,790
ago are

2046
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:40,240
you okay with that though you know there

2047
01:35:47,820 --> 01:35:43,690
you know there's always two ways to look

2048
01:35:49,860 --> 01:35:47,830
at things and whenever I suggest that a

2049
01:35:52,620 --> 01:35:49,870
disclosure has already happened and I

2050
01:35:54,660 --> 01:35:52,630
don't need disclosure it's because

2051
01:35:57,330 --> 01:35:54,670
definitions mean different things to

2052
01:36:00,240 --> 01:35:57,340
different people and the other side of

2053
01:36:03,930 --> 01:36:00,250
the room Paul as you know disclosure to

2054
01:36:07,980 --> 01:36:03,940
them is our current sitting president

2055
01:36:11,610 --> 01:36:07,990
doing a live television presentation

2056
01:36:14,970 --> 01:36:11,620
this disclosure is so we're stuck it

2057
01:36:17,220 --> 01:36:14,980
we're stuck in between well and I I do

2058
01:36:19,980 --> 01:36:17,230
agree with with Jen that disclosure is a

2059
01:36:21,810 --> 01:36:19,990
process and others you know Richard

2060
01:36:25,110 --> 01:36:21,820
Dolan and Steve Bassett feel that it's

2061
01:36:27,060 --> 01:36:25,120
more this ongoing process to sort of you

2062
01:36:29,340 --> 01:36:27,070
know before maybe that smoking gun to

2063
01:36:33,480 --> 01:36:29,350
prime the narrative and sort of control

2064
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:33,490
the contours of the discussion but to me

2065
01:36:36,390 --> 01:36:34,810
it's just an interesting phenomena that

2066
01:36:39,990 --> 01:36:36,400
my dad I think we've been interested in

2067
01:36:41,550 --> 01:36:40,000
hey I I do play the tape of you know the

2068
01:36:43,950 --> 01:36:41,560
white the saucer landing on the White

2069
01:36:45,660 --> 01:36:43,960
House lawn or this or that and still a

2070
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:45,670
significant portion of the other

2071
01:36:49,380 --> 01:36:48,010
population may not they just refuse to

2072
01:36:50,850 --> 01:36:49,390
believe it either because it doesn't

2073
01:36:53,370 --> 01:36:50,860
comport with their religious beliefs or

2074
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:53,380
they're just too skeptical about

2075
01:36:58,020 --> 01:36:54,850
anything that they're presented at all

2076
01:36:59,790 --> 01:36:58,030
now you know it deep fake videos you

2077
01:37:01,860 --> 01:36:59,800
know my father used to say a thousand

2078
01:37:03,540 --> 01:37:01,870
pictures are worth a word well now it

2079
01:37:05,430 --> 01:37:03,550
may be be a million pictures and videos

2080
01:37:07,650 --> 01:37:05,440
are what the word you know there's a

2081
01:37:10,020 --> 01:37:07,660
third group that you didn't mention I

2082
01:37:14,420 --> 01:37:10,030
would love your comment on and the third

2083
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:14,430
group wouldn't even care

2084
01:37:21,660 --> 01:37:17,610
serious dude yeah right there's so

2085
01:37:25,170 --> 01:37:21,670
acclimated is so you know been pummeled

2086
01:37:28,710 --> 01:37:25,180
with this that okay yeah I know all

2087
01:37:29,100 --> 01:37:28,720
right so they're real what's the big

2088
01:37:32,730 --> 01:37:29,110
deal

2089
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:32,740
I mean we knew this all along yeah right

2090
01:37:38,790 --> 01:37:34,570
and that's the most interesting beliefs

2091
01:37:40,350 --> 01:37:38,800
okay I believe that there are aliens I

2092
01:37:42,660 --> 01:37:40,360
believe they've come to the earth and

2093
01:37:45,480 --> 01:37:42,670
yet I don't care to me that's a

2094
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:45,490
fascinating stance there's no there's no

2095
01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:47,050
question about that

2096
01:37:53,910 --> 01:37:51,130
and I wanted to wanted to ask you this a

2097
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:53,920
couple of weeks ago had Jacques Vallee

2098
01:38:02,459 --> 01:37:57,010
on the show and he said something in

2099
01:38:05,700 --> 01:38:02,469
passing that if everybody caught it and

2100
01:38:08,069 --> 01:38:05,710
I just let it go I didn't want anyway

2101
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:08,079
this is what he said I'm gonna

2102
01:38:15,180 --> 01:38:11,770
paraphrase here but Jacque valet on this

2103
01:38:17,819 --> 01:38:15,190
very program said yes there have been

2104
01:38:20,729 --> 01:38:17,829
crashed retrievals by the government and

2105
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:20,739
Bob you know he just you know he just it

2106
01:38:25,589 --> 01:38:23,250
was in the middle of a sentence and

2107
01:38:27,689 --> 01:38:25,599
Jacques I think we've all been waiting

2108
01:38:29,910 --> 01:38:27,699
for him to say something like that over

2109
01:38:33,450 --> 01:38:29,920
the years he's always you know been a

2110
01:38:36,089 --> 01:38:33,460
step on the other side of it without

2111
01:38:38,549 --> 01:38:36,099
going into official confirmation but

2112
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:38,559
that was a pretty dramatic statement by

2113
01:38:44,609 --> 01:38:41,650
Jacques if you take it at face value did

2114
01:38:47,669 --> 01:38:44,619
your flood and and well I gotta say the

2115
01:38:49,740 --> 01:38:47,679
shock is not someone you know prone to

2116
01:38:53,490 --> 01:38:49,750
flights of fancy that's right he's a

2117
01:38:55,169 --> 01:38:53,500
very sober one of those perhaps the most

2118
01:38:59,129 --> 01:38:55,179
knowledgeable person on the planet about

2119
01:39:00,660 --> 01:38:59,139
UFOs and you know he has a PhD in

2120
01:39:05,310 --> 01:39:00,670
artificial intelligence from

2121
01:39:08,790 --> 01:39:05,320
Northwestern and a lifelong study of the

2122
01:39:10,260 --> 01:39:08,800
field and so much credibility so it's

2123
01:39:11,549 --> 01:39:10,270
often I find it you know I feel

2124
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:11,559
mentioned something like that in passing

2125
01:39:17,490 --> 01:39:14,170
yeah that becomes just utterly fantastic

2126
01:39:20,549 --> 01:39:17,500
and there's no more unimpeachable source

2127
01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:20,559
I can think of the in Jacque wale except

2128
01:39:25,589 --> 01:39:21,510
for your father

2129
01:39:33,180 --> 01:39:25,599
did your father ever mention anything

2130
01:39:36,260 --> 01:39:33,190
like that no no he didn't what was your

2131
01:39:39,089 --> 01:39:36,270
father's position on Roswell

2132
01:39:43,470 --> 01:39:39,099
well he investigated Roswell extensively

2133
01:39:45,510 --> 01:39:43,480
and you know he wasn't he wasn't a fan

2134
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:45,520
of the overall government explanation of

2135
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:48,130
that it was a high high-altitude weather

2136
01:39:53,430 --> 01:39:52,449
balloon so yeah he thought Raza was a

2137
01:39:54,750 --> 01:39:53,440
very interesting case what are the

2138
01:39:57,569 --> 01:39:54,760
interesting things about Roswell is that

2139
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:57,579
it really didn't enter become the public

2140
01:40:00,420 --> 01:39:58,960
wasn't really aware of it so like 30

2141
01:40:02,460 --> 01:40:00,430
years later in the 70

2142
01:40:06,030 --> 01:40:02,470
there wasn't a big why it wasn't widely

2143
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:06,040
known in the 50s and 60s and my father

2144
01:40:09,660 --> 01:40:07,930
thought is a very compelling case if for

2145
01:40:11,910 --> 01:40:09,670
no other reason then you had the base

2146
01:40:14,580 --> 01:40:11,920
commander saying oh hey over here folks

2147
01:40:15,660 --> 01:40:14,590
yeah we caught a flying saucer yeah that

2148
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:15,670
doesn't happen every day

2149
01:40:24,570 --> 01:40:21,610
why was Roswell omitted in in the

2150
01:40:28,350 --> 01:40:24,580
official Air Force dance because you're

2151
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:28,360
absolutely right between 1947 and 1980

2152
01:40:33,180 --> 01:40:30,850
it was not mentioned anywhere in the

2153
01:40:35,820 --> 01:40:33,190
public domain yeah I have gone back Paul

2154
01:40:38,580 --> 01:40:35,830
just so you know I've gone back and

2155
01:40:42,420 --> 01:40:38,590
listen to every popular radio show and

2156
01:40:46,230 --> 01:40:42,430
television broadcast between 1947 and

2157
01:40:49,560 --> 01:40:46,240
1980 and there is not one mention of

2158
01:40:54,330 --> 01:40:49,570
Roswell by anybody not Kehoe not

2159
01:40:57,090 --> 01:40:54,340
McDonald not I mean it's not when when

2160
01:40:59,790 --> 01:40:57,100
they're talking about you know Nazi UFOs

2161
01:41:02,040 --> 01:40:59,800
or they're talking about the 1952 flap

2162
01:41:03,750 --> 01:41:02,050
or whatever you want to bring up these

2163
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:03,760
researchers over the year nobody

2164
01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:06,370
mentioned Roswell and that's a

2165
01:41:13,620 --> 01:41:10,210
fascinating aspect to to pop culture

2166
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:13,630
that that was effectively and eliminated

2167
01:41:20,340 --> 01:41:17,850
from the public domain yeah and you know

2168
01:41:23,850 --> 01:41:20,350
you can you can say all kinds of things

2169
01:41:25,890 --> 01:41:23,860
is is this the an entity from the

2170
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:25,900
government squelching that case from

2171
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:28,000
being disseminated because certainly

2172
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:30,970
it's caught on you know it's photo of

2173
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:33,570
the most famous UFO case of all time and

2174
01:41:39,810 --> 01:41:36,730
your father the reason why I bring it up

2175
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:39,820
directly is Jacques talking about crash

2176
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:41,890
retrievals and they you know that they

2177
01:41:47,930 --> 01:41:44,710
have happened your dad worked at

2178
01:41:50,250 --> 01:41:47,940
wright-patt where all of this is

2179
01:41:52,410 --> 01:41:50,260
mentioned officially from the government

2180
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:52,420
side too as well this isn't anything

2181
01:41:59,550 --> 01:41:56,170
that is conspiratorial this is like real

2182
01:42:04,590 --> 01:41:59,560
right and this evidence was over right

2183
01:42:06,630 --> 01:42:04,600
Pat did your dad know about this you

2184
01:42:08,910 --> 01:42:06,640
know I don't know exactly what he knew

2185
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:08,920
at the time um and something interesting

2186
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:10,090
I'd like to say about wright-patterson

2187
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:12,370
and and also go back to the lieutenant

2188
01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:14,290
colonel friend we

2189
01:42:21,090 --> 01:42:19,090
often would alien bodies were alien

2190
01:42:24,150 --> 01:42:21,100
bodies never taken the wright-patterson

2191
01:42:29,670 --> 01:42:24,160
Air Force Base mm just direct question

2192
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:29,680
right and he said no alien bodies

2193
01:42:33,030 --> 01:42:31,090
wouldn't be taking the right path that

2194
01:42:35,220 --> 01:42:33,040
was a mechanical base they would have

2195
01:42:39,330 --> 01:42:35,230
been taken to Fort Hood which was a burn

2196
01:42:42,210 --> 01:42:39,340
center in Texas but noting ya notice he

2197
01:42:43,500 --> 01:42:42,220
didn't say he didn't broaden because he

2198
01:42:45,450 --> 01:42:43,510
knew what the intent of the question was

2199
01:42:47,070 --> 01:42:45,460
it wasn't really where alien body was

2200
01:42:49,710 --> 01:42:47,080
taken to this base of that base but did

2201
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:49,720
you see alien bodies he didn't then go

2202
01:42:56,070 --> 01:42:52,690
up a mile high and say and yes I saw

2203
01:42:59,670 --> 01:42:56,080
anybody he was under you know

2204
01:43:02,700 --> 01:42:59,680
non-disclosure for his life and he was a

2205
01:43:05,310 --> 01:43:02,710
vet he was a very patriotic military man

2206
01:43:08,010 --> 01:43:05,320
and so he answered the question directly

2207
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:08,020
but he avoided the spirit because that

2208
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:11,050
was his duty but I asked him on his

2209
01:43:15,170 --> 01:43:13,330
birthday party that I mentioned you know

2210
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:15,180
while no one else was looking I said

2211
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:19,210
lieutenant colonel friend the son of

2212
01:43:23,070 --> 01:43:20,170
your buddy

2213
01:43:25,830 --> 01:43:23,080
did you ever see anything super

2214
01:43:29,570 --> 01:43:25,840
convincing and he looks at me with this

2215
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:29,580
twinkle in his eyes and he said yes and

2216
01:43:34,500 --> 01:43:32,890
I found that to be to me that's also one

2217
01:43:36,500 --> 01:43:34,510
of the most compelling aspects of this

2218
01:43:40,440 --> 01:43:36,510
whole phenomena as a person like that

2219
01:43:43,980 --> 01:43:40,450
who had a front-row Center seat to the

2220
01:43:46,710 --> 01:43:43,990
phenomena has no reason to lie to me and

2221
01:43:50,340 --> 01:43:46,720
got animated and excited when I asked

2222
01:43:53,730 --> 01:43:50,350
him that question and as a as looking at

2223
01:43:58,530 --> 01:43:53,740
it as a politician he didn't say there

2224
01:44:01,830 --> 01:43:58,540
there wasn't any alien bodies nope which

2225
01:44:04,230 --> 01:44:01,840
he would hide right I don't think it

2226
01:44:06,860 --> 01:44:04,240
would lie but he would in good

2227
01:44:12,590 --> 01:44:06,870
conscience actively withhold information

2228
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:12,600
the twinkle of the eye was that

2229
01:44:19,740 --> 01:44:15,970
suggesting to you what we are all

2230
01:44:22,770 --> 01:44:19,750
thinking oh absolutely absolutely

2231
01:44:25,500 --> 01:44:22,780
I got chills down my spine because

2232
01:44:28,290 --> 01:44:25,510
here's the guy that I didn't even know

2233
01:44:30,870 --> 01:44:28,300
was around until a history rounded him

2234
01:44:32,910 --> 01:44:30,880
for the show and I was so my brother in

2235
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:32,920
Jo and I were so honored to meet with

2236
01:44:37,110 --> 01:44:34,570
him and then to see him again in his

2237
01:44:38,340 --> 01:44:37,120
birthday party to me the guy is a legend

2238
01:44:40,350 --> 01:44:38,350
and he's sort of stepping out of the

2239
01:44:42,030 --> 01:44:40,360
history books and you know personal

2240
01:44:43,770 --> 01:44:42,040
relationship and my father and he told

2241
01:44:47,430 --> 01:44:43,780
all these stories about my father I

2242
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:47,440
didn't know here's a guy who like jackal

2243
01:44:53,550 --> 01:44:51,370
is unimpeachable as a source who saw who

2244
01:44:55,850 --> 01:44:53,560
was around the phenomena directly sent

2245
01:44:58,500 --> 01:44:55,860
by the Air Force just like my father and

2246
01:45:01,410 --> 01:44:58,510
hasn't gone on record saying you know

2247
01:45:04,440 --> 01:45:01,420
that UFOs are real or I've seen aliens

2248
01:45:07,950 --> 01:45:04,450
but I asked him and he got excited about

2249
01:45:10,980 --> 01:45:07,960
the answer in saying yes and that was

2250
01:45:16,290 --> 01:45:10,990
just a wonderful moment for me Oh Monica

2251
01:45:18,990 --> 01:45:16,300
asked you today the UFO community is so

2252
01:45:22,380 --> 01:45:19,000
wonderful and so warm and so cool and I

2253
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:22,390
just love hanging out and and doing what

2254
01:45:29,850 --> 01:45:25,330
today would your father be a part of our

2255
01:45:32,430 --> 01:45:29,860
community would he embrace us absolutely

2256
01:45:35,640 --> 01:45:32,440
he was a part of the UFO community for a

2257
01:45:37,410 --> 01:45:35,650
long time and you know he you know he

2258
01:45:40,050 --> 01:45:37,420
did UFO conferences and there's you know

2259
01:45:42,660 --> 01:45:40,060
I'll be at the UFO con 2020 next week in

2260
01:45:45,630 --> 01:45:42,670
San Francisco you know he would have

2261
01:45:48,930 --> 01:45:45,640
loved these because there is a an open

2262
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:48,940
exchange of views and you know the

2263
01:45:54,750 --> 01:45:52,090
response I get from people because I'm

2264
01:45:57,300 --> 01:45:54,760
his son is really gratifying that they

2265
01:46:00,690 --> 01:45:57,310
view him as somebody who really pushed

2266
01:46:02,340 --> 01:46:00,700
the goalpost so far for this phenomena I

2267
01:46:04,410 --> 01:46:02,350
think he'd be very gratified he'd be

2268
01:46:06,630 --> 01:46:04,420
he'd loved the fact and with the

2269
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:06,640
internet now my father is the first

2270
01:46:11,850 --> 01:46:10,480
person who got me online in the 80s but

2271
01:46:15,210 --> 01:46:11,860
he would love what the Internet has done

2272
01:46:17,700 --> 01:46:15,220
for disclosure amongst individuals and

2273
01:46:20,040 --> 01:46:17,710
agencies to spread the word and I think

2274
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:20,050
he would be knee deep in the phenomena

2275
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:22,930
now and just very happy with the state

2276
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:25,690
of the overall UFO field and the people

2277
01:46:32,460 --> 01:46:29,770
that are involved in it with with the

2278
01:46:36,300 --> 01:46:32,470
success of Project Blue Book the series

2279
01:46:38,850 --> 01:46:36,310
can we anticipate and expect a season

2280
01:46:42,630 --> 01:46:38,860
three four five and six I mean there's

2281
01:46:46,370 --> 01:46:42,640
enough case study and material there

2282
01:46:50,700 --> 01:46:46,380
with ya 701 or whatever that number is

2283
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:50,710
to go into a couple of decades okay will

2284
01:46:56,100 --> 01:46:53,520
we see a season two three four or five

2285
01:47:00,600 --> 01:46:56,110
well so we're already you know almost

2286
01:47:03,030 --> 01:47:00,610
halfway into season two and I can't give

2287
01:47:06,090 --> 01:47:03,040
away anything but yes there's a lot of

2288
01:47:08,940 --> 01:47:06,100
excitement about it and there's already

2289
01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:08,950
initial ideas for subsequent seasons

2290
01:47:13,290 --> 01:47:10,960
absolutely this this train is just

2291
01:47:15,510 --> 01:47:13,300
barely left the station and everybody

2292
01:47:18,720 --> 01:47:15,520
involved with it is super excited okay

2293
01:47:20,580 --> 01:47:18,730
so season three we can expect to see the

2294
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:20,590
pipe that's all I wanted and I'm

2295
01:47:27,060 --> 01:47:25,090
speaking of Paul actually man we're out

2296
01:47:28,590 --> 01:47:27,070
of time okay that's it I'm gonna blow

2297
01:47:32,430 --> 01:47:28,600
through the commercial break we'll do

2298
01:47:35,400 --> 01:47:32,440
that in a minute you grew up with Paula

2299
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:35,410
and I asked you something off the air

2300
01:47:42,810 --> 01:47:38,730
I'm gonna ask you publicly right here

2301
01:47:47,130 --> 01:47:42,820
but was she is cool back then as she is

2302
01:47:50,040 --> 01:47:47,140
today Paola Harris is one of the coolest

2303
01:47:53,100 --> 01:47:50,050
people you'll ever meet my friend you

2304
01:47:55,020 --> 01:47:53,110
know and you know that she's an

2305
01:47:56,550 --> 01:47:55,030
indefatigable researchers he's been

2306
01:47:59,510 --> 01:47:56,560
around the world she's one of the people

2307
01:48:02,940 --> 01:47:59,520
that does real research in the field

2308
01:48:04,350 --> 01:48:02,950
she's she's an author a speaker but I

2309
01:48:07,130 --> 01:48:04,360
think she would identify her most

2310
01:48:09,630 --> 01:48:07,140
herself mostly as a bona fide legitimate

2311
01:48:11,250 --> 01:48:09,640
scientific researcher you know she

2312
01:48:13,680 --> 01:48:11,260
worked with my father and the Center for

2313
01:48:16,440 --> 01:48:13,690
UFO studies she's worked with Jaco LA

2314
01:48:20,070 --> 01:48:16,450
and in her own right she is just a

2315
01:48:22,980 --> 01:48:20,080
widely admired figure for the fact that

2316
01:48:27,330 --> 01:48:22,990
she does you know boots on the ground in

2317
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:27,340
remote parts of the world herself she

2318
01:48:32,010 --> 01:48:29,890
does and I'm holding up to the cameras

2319
01:48:36,090 --> 01:48:32,020
you can't see this ball but I'm holding

2320
01:48:40,860 --> 01:48:36,100
up this is an AI robot that Paula gave

2321
01:48:44,550 --> 01:48:40,870
me this past weekend and her again

2322
01:48:49,950 --> 01:48:44,560
forward thinking when her concerned with

2323
01:48:52,860 --> 01:48:49,960
AI and and how this may involve the

2324
01:48:55,709 --> 01:48:52,870
conversation of ET and extraterrestrials

2325
01:48:58,350 --> 01:48:55,719
of course yeah this is this is

2326
01:49:01,560 --> 01:48:58,360
who she is she is not going to slow down

2327
01:49:04,259 --> 01:49:01,570
is she no she's only she's only picking

2328
01:49:06,359 --> 01:49:04,269
up speed and I'll tell you my my view is

2329
01:49:09,270 --> 01:49:06,369
a sort of teaser for her show in

2330
01:49:11,250 --> 01:49:09,280
Laughlin and November is that especially

2331
01:49:15,229 --> 01:49:11,260
in the context of driverless cars but

2332
01:49:18,930 --> 01:49:15,239
also perhaps for UFOs I might prefer

2333
01:49:21,689 --> 01:49:18,940
artificial intelligence over human

2334
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:21,699
stupidity because we're on a fast track

2335
01:49:26,250 --> 01:49:24,010
to destroying this planet and we might

2336
01:49:29,370 --> 01:49:26,260
need help from anybody we can get it

2337
01:49:30,989 --> 01:49:29,380
from I couldn't agree with you more I

2338
01:49:33,540 --> 01:49:30,999
couldn't agree with you more

2339
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:33,550
Paul thank you so much man and it's

2340
01:49:38,759 --> 01:49:35,050
gonna be great hanging out with you all

2341
01:49:42,689 --> 01:49:38,769
all this year around the country thank

2342
01:49:44,549 --> 01:49:42,699
you so much much success and the next

2343
01:49:47,189 --> 01:49:44,559
time you're on fade to black which we'll

2344
01:49:49,469 --> 01:49:47,199
be in in a couple of months we're gonna

2345
01:49:51,870 --> 01:49:49,479
take one subject and we're gonna stay

2346
01:49:53,819 --> 01:49:51,880
there but tonight we had to we had to do

2347
01:49:56,100 --> 01:49:53,829
a little bit of everything and and it

2348
01:50:00,000 --> 01:49:56,110
was just an amazing conversation thank

2349
01:50:03,689 --> 01:50:00,010
you so much my friend my pleasure thank

2350
01:50:07,649 --> 01:50:03,699
you so much Paul Hynek and we have up on

2351
01:50:10,469 --> 01:50:07,659
fade to black you can go and click there

2352
01:50:13,109 --> 01:50:10,479
is a link for Project Blue Book over at

2353
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:13,119
History Channel and all of the episodes

2354
01:50:19,770 --> 01:50:17,530
are there questions and and the cast are

2355
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:19,780
all over on the links that we have up on

2356
01:50:25,140 --> 01:50:22,090
fade to black right now and I'll be

2357
01:50:26,850 --> 01:50:25,150
right back after this short break this

2358
01:50:29,150 --> 01:50:26,860
is fade to black thank you so much to

2359
01:50:30,890 --> 01:50:29,160
Paul hi Nick what a great conversation